Game of Morons: The UK General Election Thread

Er, no. Modern representative democracy as seen in the US and most European states.

There was a referendum on leaving. Leave won.
There was a general election, the two parties who have a stance of leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market garnered 80% of the vote.

After that you're down to trade and immigration deals, which modern states tend to do without recourse to asking the electorate.

Tell me, did you vote on NAFTA? TATP? No? So why are you expecting the UK to do so on similar deals?

If you're promoting direct democracy, I'm all for it if we can ensure any interference would be so unlikely as to be swamped by margin of error, but claiming what is going on is on a par with a banana republic is just petulance.

Probably, but not guaranteed. The parts of the Labour Manifesto that were properly costed were done so on a static basis, there was absolutely no accommodating for the fact behaviours change. This is pretty much to the influence of the communist wing of the Labour Party, who really lack the basic understanding of human behaviour due to having an overly autocratic streak a mile wide. Amusingly enough Theresa May would fit in nicely with her attitude if not her politics.

The renationalisation of energy would be a disaster, tales from the likes of the old gas board make the eyes widen. The current energy market is badly broken due to removal of regulation over vertical integration, you don't fix it by creating a fully integrated monopoly.

Trains are a different matter, I'm all for allowing public bodies too run franchises*, but the problems with the UK train service run deep and the question of public/private ownership is rendered moot by them. Doesn't matter who owns the operations, you've still got the fact that the infrastructure is still mostly sat on lines intended to ferry coal about the nation in the 19th century, not passengers in the 21st.

The entire manifesto was an ideology sugar coated for public consumption, but that doesn't mean all of it was bad or that elements shouldn't be looked at.

*Well they do I suppose. German public bodies, French public bodies...

He's not an actual EU official, the EuFA is a group of fishing business interests that are trying to influence the EU negotiating position and not an actual organ of the EU - it's the EFCA that handles fishing policy.

The EU will bully and posture, but will draw the line at inciting military responses.

And speaking of Labour, they need to be careful or they are going to piss off the electorate.

We've already got McDonnell blithely telling all and sundry that the Tories haven't got a mandate given they've not got a majority. Oh? And you guys did? No? You got a 2% swing and less seats? Oh, okay then. Carry on making a prize prick of yourself.

Trying to force May out is politically sensible, get the Tories infighting and push for a new election and try and get more seats in an effort to get a Labour minority government (the numbers tell us they won't get a majority without some major event), but trying to set yourself in government and portraying yourself as winners when you lost is just fucking nuts.

We've also got new attempts to deselect any moderates and parachute in Corbynistas, and Paul Mason - pissed off he didn't get the revolution he so achingly wanted in Greece - telling all the Labour centrists to fuck off and form a new party.

Those will be the centrists who actually won a general election right? The ones who managed to get the major swing to deliver an actual Labour majority government? Those ones? And you want those to fuck off a form a new party. Oh okay. I'm sure further fracturing of the left won't be to the benefit of the Tories at all.

Mason in quite personable and intelligent, but the merest whiff of a far left opportunity causes his brain to eject any sense out of it.

So it doesn't matter how bad the terms end up being, how out of whack with the Leave sides claims (see the HNS bus above) in your view neither the people nor Parliament should be able to revisit Brexit?

How long do you think this suspension of democracy will be necessary?

The problem IMO is that any attempt to go back on the pseudo-plebiscite will look undemocratic itself. I don't know what could happen to change that. Perhaps if Labour ran on a clear reversal platform and won, but that isn't happening.

I don't think holding an informed vote would be going back. How about once the exit costs and benefits are known hold a snap referendum: Is this what we want or no?

Again, both sides rolled out the bullshit. Project Fear came up with a number of claims including a vote for leaving would crush the economy, the economy has had other ideas. And note, that survey is from an organisation that was screaming about the dangers of leaving. So at least try being honest and recognise that neither side were exactly being angelic. It was one of the worst campaigns I've seen in a long while, mainly as there was no actual idea of what would happen afterwards, so both sides were resorting to pretty base tactics.

As for revisiting Brexit? The nation had the option to vote for that a few weeks back and they soundly rejected it. Even most remainers rejected it, there is a strong demand for getting on with things mainly as most people recognise keeping the UK polarised isn't a good thing. And I'm sorry, I'm not wishing to see the UK tear itself up any further just to satisfy your ideological opposition to Brexit, for the biggest risk right now are those sides getting so entrenched the scars won't heal.

As for the deal, if the government keeps its stance that no deal is better than a bad deal then we go to WTO terms - as a worst case scenario that isn't bad at all.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. We've had two votes in two years, so please, do keep telling us how democracy has been suspended

If it'll salve your disdain, there likely will be an effective vote on the deal - short of events forcing an earlier election providing one party with a good majority, I foresee there'll be an election forced by Labour, the SNP and cross-party remainer MPs. May's time as PM is coming to an end, it's when she goes that is the question. If she survives until a deal is made, she'll then be made to step down, and a combination of a government with no majority, led by a new PM, and holding the agreement with the EU will ensure an election.

Given the EU has prior when it comes to referendums being rerun until the "correct" result is achieved, respecting the results of them going forward would go some way to redeeming its rather untrustworthy image.

And Labour won't run on a reversal platform with Corbyn in charge, he's old left and they never supported the UK joining the EU, indeed his own lukewarm attitude to remaining caused a great deal of recrimination within the Labour party. And from a political viewpoint, running on a reversal platform is a vote loser - ask the Lib Dems.

Also, here's a few poll numbers from back in March.

The Tories have done a deal with the DUP, and rumour is it cost the UK somewhere between 1 and 2 billion extra heading towards NI.

Suspect that any grief Sinn Fein has over the arrangement will be suitably mitigated by all that lovely extra money to spend, so hopefully NI will start functioning again - after all you need a government in order to spend that money...

True, but it'll piss off the Scots and Welsh even more.

Yup. Those bits of Scotland that went blue are could very well go red next election.

I imagine May will have some explaining to do, the look on her face at the announcement spoke volumes at how unhappy she was. Of course a deal was needless, there was no way the DUP were going to give Corbyn a shot, not with his history of being against a political peace process in NI and having SF and IRA connections.

She really is atrociously bad at being PM. Sooner a deal done with the EU, the better, then she can be gone.

Seems the off-pissedness has set in quick:

And Corbyn's using it to bash austerity again:

She really has the tactical nous of, well, an idiot. Osborne must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Scotland does very well out of the UK redistribution of funds, but can hardly blame them for making something out of this. Everyone is going to want sweeties!

If she's smart, she'll further devolve tax to them to try and defuse this. Although since she's not, she won't.

Oh, Osbo has started the kicking!

The UK really deserves better than this bunch of imbeciles. Lied into Brexit madness by imbeciles, that managed by imbeciles... geez, guys. Where's that stiff upper lip? The mighty UK is looking like a 3rd world nation sitting at the table with China right now, begging for goodies and a few slaps in the face.

Who's next after May? Boris? Isn't there any ancient forgotten law allowing the Queen to just do away with those idiots?

The EU is a shit show and they are right to get out. It will take 5-10 years but by the end they will have freer trade, will not have to throw money at worthless EU paracites, can control their own borders, can control their own fishing grounds, have a better economy, and will be ruled by their own laws with their own courts.

As long as they have the bravery to see it through they will be better off in the long run.

Well, if we get end up as a third world nation we can all go drown trying to cross the channel to the EU I suppose. And any who make it can look forward to being raped and murdered on a Greek island, or if they keep us local, get sodomized and beaten by the Gendarmerie.

That is, after all, the EU's preferred method of dealing with refugees is it not?

Meanwhile Labour and the SNP's condemnation of the DUP deal looks to annoyed the DUP enough to threaten to publish their discussions with, errr, Labour and the SNP.

Should shut up Corbyn and Wee Jimmy Krankie for a bit. If you're going to condemn a deal with someone you tried to do a deal with, you look a bit of a dick.

At least Plaid Cymru can look a bit smug at their clean hands.

Not the white ones.

Well yes.

I just get a bit pissy at the hubris the likes of @Aurora shows over the UK leaving the EU, the whole "ermahgurd, you're like leaving our fruity little club, like, so not kewl guys" sets my teeth on edge.

I'm not repeating a lie. You just stated that in order to preserve internal stability neither the people nor parliament should be allowed another vote on Brexit. I'm just asking how long this suspension should last in your opinion.

Frankie Boyle has it right - an alliance between the Tory party and the political wing of the Old Testament.

Nonetheless I look forward to the new 8 Lane motorway between Ballymena and Limavady.

Yes, you are. You are claiming a suspension of democracy where no suspension exists.

And Wee Jimmy Krankie is 'resetting' her beliefs on a second referendum for independence. Something to do with getting a kicking from the voters...

Seems only Anc is after an infinite number of referendums... Alas the UK's motto isn't Unum Hominem. Unum Suffragium. Unum Gingiberri

Have you seen Foster scowl? Christ, caught it on telly and all the clocks stopped in the house, the milk soured in the fridge and I think the local wildlife started flying in reverse.

I'd say I'd hate to get on the wrong side of her, but I'm unsure there's anything but wrong sides there.

So you aren't stating that in order to preserve internal stability neither the people nor parliament should be allowed another vote on Brexit?

I am stating that I personally disagree with another vote on Brexit for those reasons. I am also stating that it isn't a suspension of democracy because:

1) The Brexit vote was made in the knowledge, made plain by both sides, this was an in/out referendum
2) A further vote was made, not 3 weeks back, where parties wishing to have a second vote were soundly beaten
3) There is no desire for another vote by the vast majority of the population
4) Traditionally populations do not vote on trade deals

There is nothing to support your view beyond your own umbrage, which last I checked Parliament wasn't beholden to.

Yea, well. It's a bad decision based on internal party struggles and lies. So... poor thing I guess. Who cares about your feelings on the matter. I'm thinking bigger.