Religion without God

Easily explained with the cop-out "God is truly unknowable to mere humans, but I understand all he was trying to teach us" crap.

Ever thought God might want folk who can think beyond the limited framework of the Bible and actually meet him as moral equals? Might like some company on the same mental footing - if not power-wise?

I'm minded of the fucking stupid "donuts and push-ups" argument: http://projectym.com/push-ups-for-donuts/

It's flawed because - unlike what the Prof is TRYING to say (Jesus DID sacrifice himself, you can't change that so not worshipping is spitting on his effort) - it has the kids perfectly prepared to do the push-ups themselves, or even take over the whole push-up routine FROM A KID WHO IS DOING THE PUSH-UPS IN FRONT OF THEM. You have kids (metaphorically) willing to be crucified, but no - only Christ could suffer like that. Only Christ (who can JUST FUCKING COME BACK FROM THE DEAD ANYWAY - and if he doesn't he KNOWS Heaven exists while we have to take it on faith) can be the sacrificial lamb for all humanity.

Imagine a bit in the cruxification scene where an ordinary man or woman chooses to swap places with Christ? But no, because the game is fucking rigged we get Barabbas.

I'd follow a God who saw those kids ready to take over and said "yep, that was the real lesson". Not the one who said "No, you can't, and fuck you for rejecting the donuts I tried to give you".

I'd never come across this story before, but it's frightening parable in that it's exactly what Christianity preaches.

Well, some more intensively than others, with Catholics being the most egregious. I'm thinking of the nuns in grade school filling our heads with horrors with almost orgasmic glee.

Terms like "a just God" are ludicrous in the context of Jesus crucified.

I get the idea that most of you will never accept a religion or a god that tells you there are things you should not do regarding sexuality.

He's the one that designed the holes that other body parts fit into, if anything he's the perv.

Please. Society and - in some cases, rationality (the two aren't equivalent) - tells us that.

"God" presumes to tell us we can work as hard as we want improving/saving the lives of others and we're still going to Hell unless we worship Him.

That's not a God. That's a psychopath.

Why? God is not requiring us to do anything that is objectively evil or even mildly wrong.

Do you want your dog to come to you when you call it or run away?

How are you on smashing babies heads open on a rock?
Because there's a verse where he smiles down on that shit.

I didn't banish my dog and all the other dogs that he'll spawn from my garden for displaying sentience and free will. Nor, having done so, would I be such a colossal prick as to then second-guess his sentience by condemning him to eternal damnation for choosing wrong.

In fact, I don't even get mad and blame my dog if he won't cuddle up to me the exact way I want. BUT GOD WOULD.

That is not in the New Testament which makes it nothing of relevance to Christians.

So it's a different God? Not the father of Jesus? The God who delivered the Ten Commandments is not the God your particular self-referential version of "Christianity" subscribes to? How many other Gods do you believe in?

Same god. But different humans. From a more savage time. Thus requiring different methods of dealing with them.

Why? Having to use differing methods to deal with people is what imperfect humans do to find new ways of communication. This should be no hassle at all for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

So he can mold the sun in his hands like Play-Doh, but he couldn't whip some conniving violent little dipshits in Mesopotamia into shape in under a few millenia?
That makes human evil more powerful than the cosmos.
It's almost like these stories were written by idiots....

I consider myself well above cattle. And I've no particular interest in being cruel to any of them. But I can tell you that even from my elevated position way above cattle that some of them you handle with a dog, others a whip, some with a cattle prod, and some can only be handled with a horse (or a tractor if you don't have a horse).

Because you're a human being with limited access to the understanding of cattle. You're learning, finding new ways to interact with different creatures. Again, an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God should not have that problem.

This Sunday's sermon at the Church of Dayton: "The Bible: Metaphors from the Farm."

Yes. But no matter how much knowledge and experience I gain I'm still just dealing with animals.

You're dealing with animals. The more you learn about them, the better you understand them. This is because you're a finite creature with limited intellectual and emotional capacity (comparatively speaking). An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God has none of these barriers. If God wanted rocks to praise His name, they would. There's no need to understand or learn, because God's supposed to already have all the answers.

But you aren't the Creator who raised these animals up from the dust and breathed life into them, knowing you'd made them imperfect, and then proceeded to punish them for the imperfections you instilled in them. Give up the barnyard metaphors. They're even more ridiculous than your usual apologia.

No. If you were God you'd be dealing with atoms. Or the quantum forces. A cow is intractable to you, but God MADE that cow. Even if he messed up, he could rewind and remake it the way he wanted, or obliterate it and start over.

God is a kid blaming the LEGO spaceship he made for not looking like the Millennium Falcon, but refusing to take it apart and try again.

For praise to mean anything it must come of ones own free will.

Thus God, while perfect, must rely on imperfect means to deal with imperfect humans.

Nope. A perfect God who creates all things must rely on nothing. There is nothing an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God cannot handle.

God defines what things mean.

But if we are to assume Merriam-Webster is God, look up "omnipotent" and get back to us.

One's own free will: DO AS I SAY OR BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!

Even under your retarded view of New Testament theology, he/it would be asking us to accept "salvation" based on a human sacrifice. That's fairly evil.

Looking back on it, they probably should have picked a better tribal god than Yahweh/Jehovah to make the One To Rule Them All.

It's the weakness of those who feel themselves picked on by the universe. "Oh, yeah? My Dad can beat your Dad!"

Indeed. I prefer Luna (or Selene if you like to go Greek) myself: a quiet traveling companion, offers guidance, murders no one.