Religion without God

It has long been the case that a significant proportion of practicing Anglicans (and even clergy) didn't believe in God - certainly not in the sense of the Bible, preferring to see the resurrection and other miracles in metaphorical rather than literal terms. These people are attracted to their churches out of a sense of belonging and a liking for the ritual rather than because of their actual beliefs.

Now the Quakers - who have played an interesting and unusually progressive historical role - are going down the road of not mentioning God at all. Without a deep knowledge of that sect I find it surprising because I'd always thought of them as quite devout and committed to their doctrines.

Let us hope that this good thing continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/04/quakers-dropping-god?CMP=fb_gu

I've wondered about that. I watch a lot of British TV and, particularly in the police procedurals, there are the inevitable funeral scenes with the cops lurking behind the trees with their binoculars hoping the suspect will turn up.

But what fascinates me is the proliferation of choirs - people who come together of an evening and sing traditional hymns just for the joy of it. Then they go about their daily lives as detectives or teachers or waitstaff or MI5 operatives without any indication of a belief system. They simply enjoy giving voice and preserving a culture. I like it.

Religion without God? The opposite of my view, which is God without religion, but JMO.

Good topic!

Will atheist oatmeal taste any different?

I always used to say to Tamar, "the Shwartz is in YOU, Lonestar!".

Just like Lonestar didn't need the ring, her and you don't need the Bronze Age Boogeyman.
You're communing with your own superpower.

I've always said that if Christians, Muslims, Jews, Seventh Day Advent Hoppists actually followed the "love each other, don't judge coz you're all equally fucked up and don't do shady shit" bits, religion would be a positive thing. It does build communities, and help folk through tough times. But it's always built on the "we're better than you, and we're gonna take advantage of helping you out to hand you a Bible and a guilt trip free-of-charge" premise.

And God/Satan/Whoever is really only in the mix as the stick the cult beats you with (they can pretend they aren't a cult because cults use real sticks, though that said so do some churches) or a means of absolving themselves of responsibility - "it's not ME who hates fags, it's GOD!" or "I slept with my mistress because the Devil tempted me, but I pray to God for forgiveness and ask you for the same!"

So these are some nice steps in the right direction.

The one, true prophet of our time...

Which religion actually teaches "not to judge"?

Now I know you or someone else will bring up the woman caught committing adultery being brought before Jesus and him saying to her accusers "Judge not lest ye be not judged".

That ignores the fact that the last thing Jesus told the woman was "Go and sin no more" which shows that Jesus himself clearly judged adultery to be a sin and that the woman was not to commit it any more.

Jesus did not say "I'm okay. You're okay. Go back to your boyfriend". Though some here would seem to suggest that is what he meant.

YOU are not supposed to judge. How many times do you need to be told?

In the Bible, it condemns hypocritical judgement. Not judgement at all.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" is pretty straightforward. Pair that with "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord" and, unless you're claiming to be God, you're out of line.

Besides, which version of the Bible, in which language, are you referring to? And just the NT again? And which denomination's interpretation?

Then there's that whole mote-in-the-eye bit.

You should quit while you're behind.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" and the "mote-in-the-eye vs. "beam-in-your-own-eye" are not prohibitions against judgement but warnings against hypocritical judgement.

And my interpretation is what matters. Not what any particular church thinks.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".

So because The Mighty Dayton chooses to interpolate the term "hypocritical" before the word "judgment," he's claiming to be wiser than the writers of scripture.

There is a universal concept in all human religions, including deism, agnosticism, and atheism. You'll find it in Matthew 22:40 and Galatians 5:14, though probably not in the canon of the First Church of Dayton3.

You don't even believe what the Bible says yet if you can use it against me you don't hesitate to reference it.

Major hypocrisy on your part.

Liar. Here's one more for you: Proverbs 16:18.

"There are none righteous, no not one".

All sin is equal in the eyes of God, D. And we are all sinners.

Hence any judgement other than God's is hypocritical.

As for your "you can't use the Bible against me if you don't believe, and if you do you're a hypocrite" crap...

https://wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3042163/

For garamet

II Peter 2: 16b- "the dumb ass speaking with a man's voice".

Lamentations 3:66- "Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the Lord"

Proverbs 26:1- "Answer not a fool according to his folly"

Revelation 2:26-And he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end to him will I give power over the nations".

I've always wanted to start my own church, and when everyone has sat down, and the music has faded, I will approach the pulpit, open my book, clear my throat and begin my sermon entitled "What the fuck is your problem?!"

I have to stop doing that.

Our problem is that we have very few non-religious social/community institutions.

Hey, this guy just parked my car! Very cool.

Well double dumb ass on you.

And next he'll fuck your wife.

I'm really tired of hearing this dopey argument from Christians.

"You don't even believe in it!! ".

So fucking what?
Is that supposed to mean something?

Do you think Captain Kirk is fucking real?
You don't hesitate to argue about Star Trek in MC.

Hell, I'd be LESS compelled to listen to Harry Potter expertise from someone who thinks fucking Hogwarts is real.

To be fair, they are a tad compromised after repeatedly running into the wall between platforms 9 and 10.

Context, context, context, context. The very next sentence behind the one you quoted is, "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." (Matthew 7:2 NKJV). So long as we are all judged by the same standard, and that standard is the Word of God, I'm okay with that. Further, just a few chapters over in Matthew 18, we have clear instructions on how to go about judging and disciplining a fellow believer that has gone astray.

The entire bible is replete with examples telling the believer to judge, but to judge correctly, and by the standard of the Word. Paul wrote in Galatians Chapter 1 that we are to judge our teachers and if anyone, even an angel, preaches another gospel than what they've already heard, we're to pick them up by their ethereal robe and put a boot in their backside. Peter warned us to judge apostates and false teachers in 2 Peter 2. In its companion, Jude's (Judas, the half-brother of Christ and an Elder in the Jerusalem church) entire book is a warning against letting false teachers fester in the church. We're to judge them and kick them out. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians was telling the members of the church in Corinth to judge a particularly vile sin that was being committed by members of the church. His second letter to the Corinthian church was to tell them to back off. They judged, the believers repented, and he warned them to accept the persons back into the fellowship and not carry a grudge.

Again.

Religion has a lot of value in terms of community, organized charity, providing moral guidance to people, etc. If we could dispense with the theological and doctrinaire aspects, it would continue to be useful to the world.

The philosopher Alain De Botton lays out a convincing case for this in his book Religion for Atheists. I recommend it.

I would call myself an Agnostic now, but I grew up Catholic. It was experience that I grew beyond, but still one that I value.

When you resort to personal attacks the jig is up. Just sayin.

This makes no sense garamet.

You positive repped Elwood for saying the same basic thing I've been saying even as you were ripping me for it.

Another example of what I see as many here negative repping me (and others) even though they actually agree.

It makes perfect sense. To begin with, @Elwood is educated in his subject matter; he doesn't just cherry-pick from the New Testament while disregarding the Old, as you do.

He's also polite, patient, civil, willing to explain on an intellectual level, and never resorts to cheap shots when his views are challenged. To my knowledge he has never insulted anyone here. IOW, he is everything you are not.

If you were smart, you'd take instruction from him, in both Scripture and deportment.

If.