Shooting at Pensacola Naval Base

Second shooting at a military facility in like 2 days.

What’s going on with the Navy? That’s two in as many days.

Where was the other one? Haven't heard anything about it.

As an aside, it's high time we start providing personnel in all branches of the service with sufficient small arms training so that they can go armed on base. U.S. military bases, in perhaps the ultimate fit of irony, are basically 'gun free' zones, and therefore soft targets once any sort of bad actor gains access.

EDIT: I see the other one was at Pearl. Also, before anyone helpfully chips in with the news that the Pearl shooter was a sailor, it doesn't matter. The more 'sane' people that are armed, the more deterrence exists, and the better everyone else can defend themselves and others. The same as every other non 'gun-free' zone.

The guy in Pearl was on duty and used his service weapon to carry out the shootings. Still no motive known.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I thought the same thing when I heard about the second (Pensacola) shooting on the radio at lunch.

okay second shooter was a Saudi National getting training.
I say because right across the hall from me (as I type this) student officers from several different countries are being trained!

Anyway the day of the Pearl Harbor shooting some dumb media fucker said "the navy is trying to figure out how the shooter got a gun onto the base."
It's called THE TRUNK OF A CAR! Really! In the rear of most cars is a special hidden compartment called a "trunk" where you can store tools, clothing, groceries, or even guns! Okay the shooter used his work weapon in this case, but the point is busy military bases do not search every vehicle coming through the gates. It would take too long and people would be literally hours late for work every day. Hundreds sometimes thousands of vehicles enter & exit a typical military base every day. There is a sign saying "no guns" or the equivalent of, and signs saying all vehicles are subject to being searched.

It's called "I got them from the armory, since I am on security watch".

So, a Saudi national that came here to learn to fly?

Where have I heard that before?

I have a good friend who is a student naval aviator. He was in the building and able to get out. He was down the hall.
He lost classmates. Very sad.
If he had a gun he could have stopped it. He is a fine young man - he would have stopped it.

I just said he used his work weapon, which would be kept in some type of armory or unit "weapons room" on the base. But if the shooter had his own personal weapon he could just bring it in his car. A rule saying "weapons aren't allowed" doesn't keep weapons from getting in is my point. On my way home today on the radio I heard some high ranking Navy guy (maybe the base commander their representative) say "weapons are not allowed on base" concerning the Pensacola shooting in a tone of voice like he was shocked that anybody could have a gun on base, because there is a federal law against it. Damn is he Ned Flanders or what? Quite often higher ranking people are out of touch with reality or something. Big shock to anybody who ever served, right?

Students from a lot of allied countries are trained in Pensacola- after all, U.S. Navy flight school trains the best combat aviators in the world with the sole exception of the Israeli Air Force. By and large, the foreign students are awesome- the cream of their nations' crop. In the case of the Saudis, they are the scions of the royal family and its various branches. Anyone who's trained in Pensacola going back 30 years and more knows how problematic the Saudi students have been. Ask a naval aviator what a 'watermelon' is and you'll get a sly, tongue in cheek response. Training jackets are green folders, while flight failures, known as 'downs', are pink sheets. Most students get 2, maybe 3 if they are lucky, and then they are washed out of flight school. Saudi students accumulate them non-stop, but are never attrited because their government throws money at the U.S. and demands they be trained so as not to bring shame on their families back home. Not going to tell tales out of school for now (and I even have a personal one involving a near-midair), but anyone who's been through the pipeline knows the deal. Not to paint the whole group with a broad brush, but in light of today's events, maybe it's FINALLY time for the NCA and the Navy to re-evaluate this 'relationship' with our 'ally', and let these 'gentlemen' train somewhere else- preferably outside the USA completely. I wouldn't even wish that bunch on the Air Force. ☠️ I'm not going to touch the off-duty, off-base antics of these pillars of Islamic conduct with a ten-foot pole.

If I'm sounding harsh and biased, maybe it's because a dear friend and former IP's son is training in Pensacola right now, and one of his roommate's friends is hospitalized right now as a result of this asshole Saudi jihadi. For any naval aviator, this is all too close to home: 'at your doorstep,' as the saying goes. Tonight, I am not a happy man. "Training America's future enemies today" used to be a bad joke when I was an SNA. Now it's harsh reality, sadly, with no end in sight.

Here's a funny story though, also related to the Saudi 'thing.' This happened when I was a student at Whiting. Two instructors on an IP-training flight were headed up to Evergreen OLF (outlying field) for pattern work. They decided to have a little fun with the Runway Duty Officer (RDO), basically another IP assigned to the field as a 'wheels watch' guy to deconflict traffic and guard against gear-up passes. The T-34C cannot be soloed from the back seat- it's a weight and balance issue. So, on the way in, the two IP's fake a Saudi accent and tell the RDO they are an inbound student solo. The guy in front takes off his helmet, unstraps, and ducks down below the canopy rail, so on the first pass the RDO sees a 'solo' flying from the rear cockpit. He freaks out, jumps on the radio, and tells the guy to come around and full stop immediately. The IP's get on the radio and fakes an accent again: "I fix! I fix!" On the upwind, they jerk the stick around and waggle, and the plane does all sorts of crazy shit. The IP in back takes off his helmet, unstraps, and ducks below the canopy rail. The guy up front straps back in and helmets up. On the second pass, the RDO sees a solo flying from the front cockpit. That switch is honestly a physical impossibility, but the Saudi guys are such scrawny fucks on average that...well, just maybe. By this time the RDO is having fucking kittens. The IP's fly another two passes and depart the pattern. The RDO calls home and by the time the plane lands (The RDO had the side number), all hell is breaking loose. The IP's got reamed but it is one of those legendary tales in the training command. But think about why it was thus and why it worked in the first place, and you have an idea what it was like dealing with the Saudis. It wasn't even a joke: if you wanted the landing pattern at an OLF to yourself, all you had to do was fake the accent when you called in at the initial point: everyone else in the pattern would fucking vacate, and that's no joke. You can't teach a carrier-style pattern when one plane is fucking it up for everyone.

And now here I am, telling tales out of school. Shame on me. Whiskey is the devil.

Just a thought, but if trained military people on a military base with armed security cannot keep an armed gunman from mowing them down then how the fuck are less trained guards and untrained citizens going to stop armed gunmen when everyone has guns? The idea that more guns will help stop people from shooting each other is so hopelessly wrong it is just an obvious lie.

However, if it is much harder to get a gun like it is in countries with a gun ban we see a massive reduction in shootings when everything else is the same. It just makes complete sense that reducing people's access to guns becomes a way to reduce violence and damage over all.

Well, perhaps we can blame the guards for the shooting and fire them because reasons.

you don't know shit about military bases or military security procedures. Go get your shine box broken record whining puppy.

Okay about what Marso said: it is indeed true that some foreign students cannot "fail". I was an instructor myself, and while the vast majority of the students are great, some do take advantage of not being able to wash out. The default setting is all foreign students get an admin "pass" in their official records. If I as an instructor put a big red F on their test it has no teeth - the student will get through the course. It's human nature - we get away with what we can get away with. If they are learning to flip burgers, I'd say no harm done. But in the aviation world (air traffic control world in my case) allowing sub standard students to get through can be deadly.

Off duty after class behavior? Oh hell yes those sandbox students go into full BACHELOR PARTY mode! from day #1 and never let up. They know when they go back to the sandbox the freedom to party comes to a screeching halt, or is severely limited. Too hung over to stay focused in class? Who gives a shit, they literally can't fail!

That is true, but the general knowledge of that is where our trained military is, and they would be the most on guard people we would have in standard daily life, and they can't deal with a society full of guns makes a logical argument based on just public knowledge of military operations.

This is why I make good points and you are just a dimwitted trump grunt.

"That is true, but the general knowledge of that is where our trained military is, and they would be the most on guard people we would have in standard daily life, and they can't deal with a society full of guns makes a logical argument based on just public knowledge of military operations." - Tererun

Good point military people should be the most "on guard" and they are when it comes to combat or combat training. But here is something a lot of civilians (especially anti-gun types) don't consider:
making a place a complete "gun free" zone has the effect of people letting their guards down somewhat. They get a false sense of security. Another thing that might be (more research is needed) degrading reaction times to violent situations is the constant "active shooter" training - and here is why: when a violent situation erupts people might think it's just another training scenario. Sort of like when car alarms first came out and after a while everyone ignored them because they assumed it was a false alarm.

From Marso's stories, we're lucky the Saudis are so shit at flying he thought this was a better option than waiting until his next sortie and plowing the fighter into a populated building.

at least he can fly - I doubt if you can pilot your Rascal scooter and chew gum at the same time.

Okay I'm not a "dinner party" kind of guy (too upscale for me) but is watching videos of mass shootings typical entertainment at these gatherings?

Rascal Scooter and/or Gum are not nice ways to refer to your mother.

But I totally can.

Tying your own shoes is just around the corner no doubt! You seem like a loafer or sandal guy to be honest, but it's good to versatile!

Good to be versatile.

FFS.

DAMN! Now my commute may be longer because security measures might be increased at the gates here at Fort Gordon. Like I said before, we have a shitload of foreign military here.