Oh, they WERE informed. We fucking told them this would happen. "Project Fear", they responded. "Doing down the nation!", they said. "The EU needs us more than we need it!", they jeered. Even now, point out that we predicted this all along and you'll get called a Remoaner and have them claim the EU are doing all this "to punish us".
It is...strange?...how the viruses of Trumpism and Brexit flared up at about the same time on both sides of the Atlantic. I have a Facebook friend in England who sincerely believed that it was about protecting jobs from immigrants. I didn't bother to tell her she was being lied to and that scapegoating is one of the most time-tested and ugliest ways that the rich and powerful convince the poor and powerless to turn against their own interests.
No, remember, LePen was also at the same time, but the French wised up and with Macron. And the Hungarians got stuck with Orban.
There seemed to be a global resurgence in far right figures gaining mainstream popularity at the time. It seems that a convergence of several factors set the scene, not the least of which being the prevalence of social media acting as a multiplier. I use the past tense advisedly on the basis that prophecies are apparently self fulfilling. Also we'll be submitting our application to rejoin the EU within five years.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. I also wouldn't be surprised if the E-U tells the U-K to use the application for ass-wipe. I'm old enough to remember when the U.K. was desperate to be admitted and DeGaulle told them to piss off. Round and round she goes...
Bruxelles in 2026: Well, hmm, your application to rejoin the EU is in good order. Everything's up to snuff. Mais. We're not sure you have sufficiently finished your timeout. We also see you might be trying to strengthen ties with Canada, New Zealand, und Australia. If so, they'll have to apply to. Et this time, you will have to adopt the Euro, so apply again in 5 years!
Not the first time something like that has happened (cf. Reagan/Thatcher, Clinton/Blair). It would be interesting to read a deep dive into what influences lead to U.S. and U.K. political movements and moments seeming to move in tandem at times...
Caman, Joe Geordie and Jane Scouser weren’t educated on their decision at all, they saw the fuck foreigners angle and just voted with fingers in the ears I’ve seen the whole series of Geordie Shore - trust me, i know this to be true
I don’t think you’re far wrong. A lot of those areas were left to rot for a couple of decades and people there saw the population boom from freedom of movement as a threat rather than a sign things could start to improve. Although that said, increased numbers did seem to put economic pressures on areas (ie increased rent, demand for local authority services etc) just not supported with enough investment from central government. I think it was mis-managed.
I think the best chance would be for the UK to rejoin in little pieces, then see if they want to put the UK back together afterward. An independant Scotland could be the beginning of the process. (North Ireland will probably just let itself be absorbed back into Ireland one of these days, since the Protestant/Catholic issues that led to the island being divided in the first place have pretty much died down, but NI coming back into the EU that way wouldn't count as the beginning of a "return" to the EU, because it won't be done just as a way of getting back into the EU.)
Jane Scouser strongly voted Remain, which is unsurprising given Liverpool's economic role and demographics, not to mention the very visible EU funding for major redevelopments throughout the city. Geordies, OTOH, really needed to be counted as foreigners to be deported.
Oh? It was my understanding that with governments in general going in a more secular direction, the Irish didn't care as much about the issue as in the past. Tell me more, though. You are obviously the most qualified person on WF to explain the situation, and I'm very willing and anxious to learn. (And no, there is no sarcasm at all in that. I'm really and truly interested in anything you can tell me about the current state of Catholic-Protestant tensions among the Irish.)
Violence has died down in the north, and the south (ROI) have become more secular. But communities and politics in the north are as polarized as ever (something exacerbated by Brexit). While there is occasional talk of a referendum on Irish unity as demographics in the north trend more nationalist, there is considerable reluctance among many in the south to consider taking on the north and it's problems (it's an economic basket case apart from anything else) and you can bet that if unity was ever implemented it would be accompanied by an enormous eruption of violence from northern loyalists who continue to be apoplectic at the very prospect. Perhaps more later when I'm not on my phone...
Do so, if you can (and feel like it, of course). In particular, how has Brexit affected the whole mess?
I was going to respond to this regarding NI, but Rick is in a far better position to do so than I. Suffice to say I'm not sure the Protestant/Catholic divides can accurately be said to have "died down".
Well, Rick will be better placed as Spot says, but the whole issue of whether there was going to have to be a physical border re-established between North and South (and the appearance that the UK government at one point might chuck the entire Good Friday Agreement in the bin) didn't help, to say the least.
I saw all that in the news, but I got the impression over here on our side of the Channel (where the news might be slanted a different way, I readily admit) that that border issue would be more prone to inciting the Irish on both sides of the border to want to re-unite, to avoid the hassles of a hard border between them. From what Rick says, though, I get the impression that it makes the tensions between NI and the Republic worse than before. Would be interested to understand why, even though I don't have any particular "side" in the issue. (I'm partly of Irish descent, on my Canadian side, but I don't even know whether it's Protestant or Catholic. My Canadian-Irish grandmother died when my mother was born, and her husband -- my grandfather -- died when my mother was a teen-ager, so we don't know that much about her.)
I can’t really remember, but wasn’t it just cities that voted remain? I think in the north Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, York etc did but outside their boundaries, the pendulum swung sharply the other way. ETA: Sheffield voted leave, just https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
On a speculative note, one of the alt/speculative history channels (I think it was Whatifalthist) I watch on YT made a video speculating that with Brexit a fait acomplit, the UK could look to strengthening ties with Canada, NZ, and Australia and reform Great Britain as a single entity of 'Canzuk'. Imagine if this were to happen and then for the UK to rejoin the EU. Obviously, this is so unlikely that it almost doesn't merit consideration, but the idea that the EU would essentially then stretch through northern North America, and most of Oceania is both fascinating and horrifying (to an extent, so is a reformed British Empire of Canzuk). Fuck it, bring it on
Our company's finance directors in the UK and Ireland are both of the opinion that as long as there aren't any "hard lines" defining Northern Ireland from the rest of Ireland, the people are less violent. That's why they can't tell me exactly what exactly is Northern Ireland and what isn't. So far, we've only been able to define it as "if the zip code starts with BT".
CANZUK is one of those weird things that I want both as someone who would personally benefit from it, and as someone who thinks that international policy should have a long term goal of minimising any restrictions on international movement. Australia and New Zealand have a very close relationship now (both our citizens are free to move, live, and work in the other country) that serves us well. However I am always deeply suspicious of anyone that pushes CANZUK as a serious proposition. They talk about Commonwealth heritage and other such things, but then only seem to include the white sort of country.
As long we're admitting ignorance, I've wondered for a long time what the Commonwealth does and what the benefits are to the members. I gather that it's made up of former and current British possessions, but beyond that...no clue
True, but try telling anyone from Liverpool that someone from Halton or St Helens is a Scouser... More seriously, yes, which is interesting in terms of what it suggests about the effects of multicultural exposure on attitudes.
I don’t really know either... we have the Commonwealth Games and the Queen holds a showcase celebration thing on Commonwealth day, but beyond that
