Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Tangent #654

George Zimmerman shouldn't have been allowed within 100 feet of gun ownership. Do background checks flag you for being a fucking cop-wannabe moron? Probably not in Florida.

This is and has always been my argument. Zimmerman put himself in a situation in which he could not get himself out. If he did not have the gun, he would be dead and Martin would be in prison. But, he did have a gun. So, why is he not in prison?

I'm pretty sure @Elwood said following someone is not a crime.

But, he didn't just follow, did he?

Had Zimmerman not had a gun. If he ... somehow managed to get an upperhand and kill Martin - or seriously injure Martin - would this even be an issue? Zimmerman would be in prison.

The only reason people want Zimmerman to be "not guilty" is because they fear it will have another reason for "gun grabbers" take away people's guns.

The man killed someone. He should be in prison.

So...you're less likely to go to jail if you kill someone with a gun, as opposed to your bare hands?

In this case, because it was so widely publicized; sure.

Other than that, I don't know. I would think killing someone, regardless of the instrument, would go to prison.

The American legal system clearly disagrees.

Do you think a physically abused wife who shoots her husband while he's sleeping should do time? Or should a homeowner who has armed robbers invading their home go to jail for murder if they shoot them? Self-defense is a pretty basic legal principle.

So what was Zimmerman's move there? Lay back and see if the kid shattered his skull? He had already screamed for help repeatedly - the kid continued to attack him.

And being angry is no excuse, and no, I don't think he did the best he could considering his cards. He had every opportunity to disengage from a fight he clearly already won.

I've already answered this question above.

Being angry is not an excuse.

Being a teenager is.

Whether people want to accept it or not, teenagers are NOT psychologically mature. They are NOT adults. They do NOT think ... most of the time they do not think logically. They do not think like adults. They don't necessarily "know" it's time to stop banging someone's head into the sidewalk.

It's not the way I behaved. But, I am also honest with myself enough to know that just because my misbehavior was not the same as someone else's, doesn't mean I didn't have my fair share of bad teenage decisions that I didn't know when to stop and were also probably bordered on criminal.

But I thought All Cops Are Bastards and therefore the bad guys that would have killed Martin anyway.

I've been in fights in my teens. I knew it was not right to continue pounding on the person after I beat them in the fight. That's basic empathy, and yes, we should expect teenagers not to murder the rest of us.

It fills my heart with joy to see that the mythologizing of this incident continues unabated. As I've noted before, the narrative of this thing was set within moments of it hitting the media and no amount of facts will ever change anyone's minds.

Following is not "stalking."

Turning back to confront a "stalker" you had already safely eluded is not "defending yourself. "

Somebody threw the first punch, and that person is responsible for Martin's death.

You must have me confused with @Amaris. I've never said anything to the affect that all cops are bastards. I don't like cops. Don't want to be friends or anything. But, I've never said all cops are bastards, nor do I believe all cops are out to kill people.

Also, Zimmerman wasn't a cop.

But, you're certain it was Martin.

Aren't you special.

And, what is that difference?

Here's one person's opinion. It's basically the same way I define the two.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-stalking-and-following


With these two definitions, Zimmerman was stalking Martin.

This is true, I'm the one who says all cops are bastards.

I'm pretty sure teenagers don't have the best impulse control due to having developing brains and all. However, to explicitly state that "they don't necessarily "know" it's time to stop banging someone's head into the sidewalk" seems...farfetched. I'm not a child psychologist, though. Seems like most kids develop a sense of right and wrong well before adolescence. And teenage fights don't usually end like Edward Norton's fight with Jared Leto in Fight Club, so...I guess I would hypothesize most teenagers don't go into murderous rampage mode when they get into a fight. I don't know. Maybe Trayvon got lost in the moment. We'll never know.

Anyway.

Unfortunately, it's not a crime to be a belligerent idiot, so George Zimmerman walks free today. Even if he did everything according to Hoyle on that fateful night, he was acting in a very unsafe and stupid manner. He was playing cop. He should have grown the hell up and gone home, and let the police do their job. But he didn't, and a kid died. Maybe Zimmerman wasn't guilty of murder, maybe he was. But he was certainly guilty of being a stupid fuck. Still is.

Basically, my thoughts on the matter. And, I have a tendency to get angry at people blaming victims. Regardless of anything else, Martin was a victim.

The physical evidence, while not 100% conclusive and airtight, supports it. The one who swings first typically gets the upper hand, and that clearly was not Zimmerman. I can't reasonably be certain, and that doubt is why he is a free man.

Subjective, of course, but you can't just slap on the "stalker" label because you don't like him. I mean, you can, but it doesn't pass the "reasonable" test.

A victim of his own bad decisions as much as Zimmerman's. It's not palatable to face up to the fact that a teenager can make fatal decisions, but it happens all the time, and revulsion at it does not make it any less true. As I have said many times, if you're big enough to beat a grown man bloody, you're big enough to get shot dead in the street for your trouble.

Oh, you sweet summer child.

Arbiter of reasonableness over here.

Friendly reminder that although using deadly force in self-defense may be legally OK in some situations, it is still immoral to take another person's life regardless of the circumstances. And I don't think there is any reasonable disagreement that Zimmerman is a dirtbag from a moral standpoint (especially in light of his conduct over the past few years).

Also, glad to know that the next time I stalk @Uncle Albert down the street, there isn't anything he can do about it.

That is some weapons-grade horseshit, right there.

So, to summarize, white person sees black guy with a cell phone, shoots him "I feared for my life".

Black kid gets followed by a maniac who ultimately killed him, fears for his life, tries not to die "I feared for my life!".

Wow, it's like black people can't win cuz the rules are rigged.
Nah, that can't be, that would make me sad about 'Murca.
Someone tell me a fairy tale about George Washington chopping down a cherry tree, and give me a flag to hug.

You really shouldn't sign your posts, it's tacky.