Glenn Greenwald is a fucking nutcase

Of course the Democrats are going to make political hay out of an ATTEMPT TO OVERTHROW THE US GOVERNMENT.

That is an entirely different statement than saying the Dems are going to go authoritarian and declare everyone they don't like an enemy of the state.

To this point there has been no impact by the state on anyone that instigated that attack.

Complete and utter bullshit.

The cops fought in bloody hand to hand fighting to keep the insurrectionists out of the building. One died, two others committed suicide. Many were traumatized, including several diagnoses of PTSD.

Let me guess - you didn't watch the coverage of their testimony yesterday?

The rioters were there to stop the election at any cost, and quite frankly if they got their hands on any members of congress they likely would have beaten, kidnapped, or for even killed. What do you think the zip ties were for? They errected a gallows and people are on tape saying that it would be used by the end of the day. Crowds explicitly chanted they were there to kill the Vice President because he said he'd do his duty and certify the election.

Yes, Congress needs the ability to do one of its most fundamental jobs, which includes the election of the next President. That is how democracy works. If you don't care about democracy, as you have stated openly in the past, that's on you. We can't have mobs of people violently suppressing the function of our government because they lost an election and don't like the results.

CDC changes it guidance based on the data, like scientists should. New data came out that the viral load in the vaccinated population was still hundreds of times higher when they had the delta variant, even if the people weren't ill. This means vaccinated people can get the disease, feel OK, and still be carriers.

As of today 49 of the 50 states in the country have had a 50% spike or more in number of cases, and several states are back to the point there are no ICU beds available.

No, it is not, and you need to calm down a bit and listen.

Yes, that was horrible, but we need to look at what actually happened and recognize part of the problem was the racist police who hung their own people out to dry. If the police had operated in a non-racist fashion and kept up the proper levels of security needed due to obvious threats they would have been fine. Instead the police administration lowered their guard and allowed this to get out of hand. If there was a response on the level that was there when the BLM protests came and trump was cowering in his bunker this would not have been a problem. If they were shooting tear gas, pepper balls, and rubber bullets at these protestors like they did to clear the way for trump to speak at the church during the protests they would have broken this crowd up.

Instead the police who operate in tandem with the organizers of the jan 6th riots at other times had their guard down because large amounts of them wanted to scare the fuck out of dem congresspeople. What they did not realize is the rioters were there to hang everyone. These are the things the investigation needs to out. Those cops that were there that day were abandoned and sent out to be abused by radical right forces who have infiltrated law enforcement and helped assist that day.

We do not need to enable more abuse of legitimate protests like BLM and anti-police brutality and militarization movements. We should not be empowering the police to go after the watchdogs and harass and persecute them into silence because we empower them to go after the right wing domestic terrorists. What @Amaris is saying, if I understand correctly, is that law enforcement is going to use national security to clamp down on left wing groups and still work with the right wing terrorists unless we actually start rooting out the right wing terrorist infiltrators in law enforcement. On top of that the right wing fascist terrorists are using our police to enforce their codes of conduct and that is the start of right wing fascism.

I have shown respect to your ability to discuss things, and I am not saying you have to agree with me. I want you to calm down a bit because I also know amaris can support her opinions with a rationalized and supported argument. You may not agree with her conclusions, but she is not some ridiculous communist leftist like you are trying to say. She has reasons and good arguments to discuss. I know what the police said was emotionally enraging. I am right there with you in being completely pissed about how they were treated and what they had to endure. I want their voices and experience to be heard and understood. They were understaffed for a fucking reason. The people in charge knew there was going to be a huge mass of protestors. They knew people had brought arms into the capitol for violent riots. They knew there was plans to attack the capitol. They should have been as prepared as they were for the BLM protests and they were not even close. Now we need to expose the reason we all know. You cannot let white christian supremacists plan domestic terrorism and not be prepared to respond to such an event.

The CDC admitted through fauchi and other scientists that in the very beginning they tried to play down the benefit of masking because they knew there would be a run on our supplies and orange fuckwit had gone so far as to lower our preparedness with protective gear like masks. I am going to put that squarely on the horrors of the trump administration and hope that in the future the CDC will not have to do such a thing because they will have overstocked these easily manufactured protective supplies to a really good point.

We, as people who have listened and lived through this, have got to remember what has happened. Even for blaming trump for his obvious stupidity in lowering preparedness, the world has never seen anything like this and we have to learn from it and up our game. This was a light hit. As much as anyone wants to scream, this shit is not as bad as it could be. I agree we have to look at our world with this new knowledge and prepare in ways we would not have even before trump.

We need to up our nationwide medical preparedness and have medical machines stockpiled for emergencies. This is not something a capitalist corporation will do. This has to be done by the government as in the CDC and FEMA. We have to fund those things. We have to fund them like we fund our military now. Natural disasters and pandemics are our real enemy now. We can prepare and be ready for the next one. We need to start taxing corporations so we can establish that preparedness because corporations need the people and infrastructure working so they can profit.

@Demiurge how is the middle not the problem when they are the ones who are electing all of these people? The fringes are not winning on either side. The people who are winning are the corporatist middle who get what they want. The sides and fringe only get a taste of what they want.

Community paid medical care: we have some social security, and some subsidies for purchasing private health insurance.
Schools: We have some public schools until 12th grade and then you have to pay pay pay. We will loan you some money for your improvement that is hard to escape from. We will help more if it is for employment.
Police: They are there for the commercial entities, but you are doing private security through an HOA or making safe rooms and getting guns if you do not have that.
abortion: We will let the right stomp on you if you are poor, but if you are a professional and have a good corporate job we will make sure you can plan for your family or abort as needed. No one is really stopping liberal working women from aborting.
Jesus: We will decorate and stuff, but business is mostly happening on the holidays. But the workers can say happy holidays or merry christmas if they are working.
GLBT and sex: Yeah, that shit is going on and the corporations are giving less and less of a fuck because everyone buys shit and has to work.

It is all the corporatist middle. It is on both sides. Even the right is just giving lip service to the ideas of their religious radicals. They tried to overthrow the ACA 50+ times during the Obama years. How many times did they propose anti-abortion legislation they knew was going to fail? How hard did they really fight for DOMA? When you see how hard they fought the ACA they don't give a fuck about abortion or DOMA. I will give people like MTG credit for at least trying to introduce the bullshit laws her people want. She goes far more than any of the right wing middle does. The radical right is just waking up to the reality that they have been voting for the middle forever and getting nothing. For all the David Dukes they were not bringing back segregation and taking voting away from black people directly.

The middle is where the corruption is. The middle is where Hillary and trump win. By the middle I mean the bell and not where the median is.

There's no indication that the police leadership was corrupt. There is strong evidence it was incompetent and let its own biases based on who it believed were its friends impact its policymaking. That is NOT the same thing as saying they refused to do their job or that the leadership itself was working with the insurrectionists. They weren't the ones giving guided tours the day before. And every single one of them was forced to resign for their failure, as is proper.

A straw man. The capitol police protect the capitol, that is it. They aren't the MPD or any other police department. The GOP is attempting to hamstring their budget. It doesn't take a genius to understand the ramifications of that. There will be other elections, obviously.

And they are doing the same thing with the DC national guard. For the same reasons.

You agree with her POV and she has openly discussed believing in far left ideology, including stating that the system can't be changed democratically. I don't hold truck with authoritarians. There have been very, very few peaceful revolutions in history, and you play into the worst examples of the far right's belief in you if you support overthrowing the US constitution.

Yes, which is why we need to fund the capitol police and make sure that it's a strong force to protect democracy and our institutions.

Instead of defunding it, which opens yet more of these attacks.

But then, if you don't believe in democracy and the rule of law, maybe that's what you want.

I agree with that completely. We should be focusing on climate and epedmiological preparedness, and start downgraded our international presence and military. But we need to be prepared to switch gears there if necessary, because we know countries like the PRC and Russia will use that to conquer territory around them which they intend to include as parts of their long term empire.

The fringe on the right is absolutely winning. You are objectively wrong on that. The entire party of the right has turned into the far right. And the Dems have a large left presence that is moving the party to the left. And that's fine, I think for the most part that is where we should go. Biden ran under the most progressive platform the Dems have ever put forward. But we have the far left constantly railing that the Dems are just like the GOP, and quite frankly, it's sickening.

You honestly think that the far right (which is now the entire GOP sans half a dozen people) or the far left doesn't have corruption? That's astonishingly naive.

Yes, the Trump admin wasn't capable of delivering on it's promises. That's not because they didn't try, it's because the workings of the US government make it hard to make dramatic changes. And in these cases, that was a fantastically good thing, even if it's frustrating when we want new policies enacted.

The fact MTG is trying to get her insane policies enacted is not only not a good thing, it's actively horrific. And you would be one of the first ones to suffer if the middle didn't hold the right to task for it.

1. Cops lie.
2. If you're going to lick the boot, at least let them buy you a real dinner first.

No, we've inflicted far worse wounds on each other. 1/6 was some rich assholes getting worried that the people with the pitchforks are within arm's length, and it spurred them into action.

So.. what's a reasonable response you'd expect from Dems? should we just hold hands and sing Kumbyah and wait for the next time? Don't forget, House Dems wanted to do a Warren committee type of investigation and the GOP dunked it... So yeah, they decided to proceed without them... just so useful idiots can accuse them of partisanship... but IMHO, the GOP had a legitimate chance to exert some influence and they decided they didn't want it. In what way are Dems exaggerating, IYHO? I'm genuinely curious.


Personally, I felt that ANY response from anyone was bound to elicit these type of accusations and I don't know if it's entirely fair... I'd like to see the DOJ appoint an independent counsel with subpoena power to take over.

Some cops some of the time, sure. But you folks have made it an article of faith that it's all cops, all of the time.

I'll be the first to say when they are wrong - when they are wrong. You have nothing but your biases to suggest that the capitol police leadership were active participants in the insurrection, or wanted the insurrection to succeed.

The only evidence proferred so far is they let their biases impact them when assessing the threat, as did some other agencies. And now every single one of them that made that mistake has resigned or been fired.

Amazing how often you align with Trumpers.

But then, you've stated you don't want a democratic path forward. You want them to be vulnerable when your revolution comes.

Not all areas of the capital were breached in the same way. Some parts had massive violence while other parts didn't.

Have I stated I don't want a democratic path forward?

It seems like I agree with Trumpers because of the way the duopoly is setup. Right now the only people criticizing the ineptitude of the Democrats is the Republicans, and when the GOP takes power, I will agree more with Democrats because they'll be the ones criticizing the ineptitude of the Republicans. How have you not figured out the way this system has been setup to keep you either fighting or defending when the only people who benefit are those who have massive wealth and power?

When the Democrats lose in 2022, they will immediately start pushing for $15 minimum wage and universal healthcare. In 2024, if they lose the White House, they'll start slamming the GOP about kids in cages.

It's not that they actually want it, but it's what keeps all of you running to the polls time and time again even though very little has changed. So go on, have your show trial, weep at the pain these officers went through, because the Dems will increase the police budget, and then the GOP will use those police to murder more black people. Y'all are happy as pigs in shit with the system you have right now, clearly, or if not happy, you're very comfortable.

You are actually admitting to the evidence there was corruption. That was not a mistake. You do not have so much info that regular people like you and me would know you should be prepared with police to protect against protestors you knew were there. There was plans for a huge rally, and you have evidence these rallies have turned into violent mobs because it was happening up until the election and after the election happened. Any person would have chosen to have large units of police and national guard ready to move on that day. This was not a surprise attack. This was a planned event with large number of angry people who were talking in public about doing bad shit. DC was a part of the BLM protests early in the year. We saw what they can do when they are prepared to deal with rioters. We saw how quickly they could react with black people rioting. If there was that sort of response on the 6th they would have never been able to take the capitol.

It was a decision that was made to have less people around while they knew there was talk of rioting and violence. That decision was made to weaken the protections around congress to allow for the attack to get as far as it did. These people had moved to kidnap state leaders and assault state capitals before this event. They knew the threat was real and things were going to happen. They were purposefully understaffed so as to be overrun. The question is who did it and where the infiltration and corruption is, not that there was infiltration and corruption of the security forces of the capitol on that day.

The capitol police work with information they gather from NSA data collections and secret FISA warrants. If DHS is not going to act upon the data collection authorised by the patriot act to stop domestic terrorists from doing something like this, then why the fuck do we have the patriot act at all? There is never going to be a foreign threat that will take out our nation on the level that these white nationalist terrorists did. Our best defense against what happened would be the NSA letting the capitol police know about the threat, which they were according to everything I have read. They were aware of all of these people doing this shit. They had people monitoring all of these domestic terrorist organizations. The police knew these people were there, they knew they were acting, and they did not respond.

Now you are just going down the real of ranting. That is a lot of you putting words into my mouth that you want to argue against because you are emotional and have no argument. We are having a fucking discussion. Now you are ranting like a victim.

Now you are acting like a right wing nutbar, being intellectually dishonest, and not pasrticipating in a discussion.

Yet again you assume an argument I have not made. This is pathetic strawmanning at this point and you are running on bullshit. I have given you some respect and then you go down this road.

Look, I am going to relax and just let the red haze of idiocy dissipate a little bit. Calm down and let us have a rational discussion without you jumping up and down and screaming about the communist coming to destroy us all.

@Amaris @Tererun , you know who the real enemy is though?
Outrage culture.

@Demiurge you know who the real villain is here?
Outrage culture.

You stated you didn't believe in democracy. So yes.

Right, you aren't aware that in a two party system there's an opposition party, and that checks and balances mean that neither side gets entirely what it wants. That's not ineptitude.

They are already pushing for $15 minimum wage. That's different than saying they have the votes to enact it.

Biden wants to expand the ACA. There's more than one way to get to universal healthcare. I'd prefer some version of M4All, but that doesn't have anywhere near the number of votes to pass.

This is why I keep harping on you not caring about democracy. You make that point, over and over again.

You don't understand that increasing the capitol police budget isn't the same thing as increasing police budgets. To your incredibly simplistic 'thinking', police are bad, even if this group has nothing to do with policing a city, and literally just protect the capitol.

And no, I'm not happy as shit, but authoritarianism is worse, and any attempt to overthrow the US Constitution will lead to civil war. What I want to see is the overton window changing enough so better policies are enacted, and that includes removing oligarchial influences.

So once again, I'm not for violent revolution unless we are actually seeing the current system destroyed. The patterns of history show us that these revolutions often turn to zealotry, and often are turned against those who intend to make the system better.

And you sound like a Trumper because you are a zealot, just like they are.

Post it.

Hey, at least I didn't vote for a rapist, and I don't make excuses for kids in cages. You have to live with that. My "zealotry" somehow prevented me from accepting that, almost like I have principles or some purity shit. What you have are politics of convenience. You enjoy enough privilege that you can say "wait wait" while other people wait until they die. You're a good white moderate.

While I agree, you have a short take on it? A 40 min video is a bit much.

While this takes place, by the way, Joe Biden has said we're not going to shut down despite COVID cases skyrocketing, though that's hard to track right now because people simply stopped tracking it after he was elected, because pandemics always listen to the current President.

Oh, and about those kids in cages I mentioned earlier:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigr...mplaint/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=125657701

Don't worry, though, the continued attacks on whisteblowers will eventually put those inconvenient leaks out.

hArM rEdUcTiOn.

Nah, just better off liberals getting the white civility back they wanted more than anything else. You all got a blue Trump and you're fine with it because he likes ice cream and holds his wife's hand. He also said if you didn't vote for him you ain't black, but he didn't say what you think he said because he meant something else, but even if he didn't, you're just looking to be offended. Trumpers would have never tried that shit as an excuse, would they?

Isn't the air so much sweeter without the mask?

Y'all get mad and mocking when I talk about it, and that's good, because maybe you'll quit cumming all over yourself and pay closer attention to what's going on around you, otherwise you're going to negative peace yourselves right into a situation from which you cannot remove yourself.

The search feature is crapping out for me for anything before April 21. But I guess you might be one of those anarcho-communists that are all about working within the system for progressive change.

Right, 1) not a rapist, but hey, smear jobs work for the Trumpers so you might as well latch on and 2) We know you chose to not help defeat Donald Trump, despite the incredible danger he posed for our democracy.

Because to you Biden is just as evil, as am I, because I think going around the Constitution will lead to far, far worse than what we are seeing now.

I didn't.

You can be upset at it, but at the end of the day, the same people here who were all "Me too!" suddenly found a reason to believe that Biden didn't do it, just like he doesn't touch kids, and like he doesn't say racist things, like he doesn't get angry at people who ask him reasonable questions. That's who you voted for, and now you're all about patriotism and police, and you're going to just fucking walk right back into it again, having learned nothing. I repeat it because I give a damn about you, and about the people in this country. You believe what you want. Put whatever clothes you want on the emperor's nude body, but don't pretend that I don't have to see it while all of you lavish how lovely and so much better the fit is compared to Trump.

See, @Diacanu? Harm reduction. Rapists aren't guilty if they're blue.

We had a whole thread about this, and as I recall, it didn't end with you going "I win!! I won the argument forever!!! Amarriiiisss!!! " *"Hearts On Fire" plays to a slideshow of Amaris holding the flag, and running up the Philadelphia Museum Of Art steps*

I mean, maybe it did, but my memory is usually pretty reliable.

Some people lie, Amaris. For example, Tara Reade has committed perjury prior to her accusations against Biden.

"Reade has misrepresented herself and her life experiences on numerous occasions, including lying under oath and in court proceedings. For example, she falsely claimed to hold a bachelor's degree from Antioch University,[2] and falsely stated that she had worked as an "online visiting professor" as a member of the faculty at Antioch. When asked by the media why there was no record of her degree from Antioch, Reade claimed to have obtained a bachelor's degree through a secret "fast-track" program for survivors of sexual assault, an assertion the university also denied.[3][1][2] Subsequently Reade was investigated by prosecutors in Monterey County, California, for lying under oath about her educational credentials in her appearances as an expert witness on domestic abuse; prosecutors later determined that she had repeatedly lied under oath, but declined to prosecute her for perjury, because her lies had not been material to the outcome of a legal case.[4][5]

Prior to accusing Biden of sexual assault in 2020, Reade made various other comments that cast her encounters with Biden in a different light. In April 2019, Reade said that she filed a complaint in 1993 against Biden with a Senate human resources office in which she alleged that Biden had made her feel uncomfortable through comments she deemed demeaning, allegedly including a compliment about her looks and a request for Reade to serve drinks at a Senate event. However, in her complaint, Reade did not accuse Biden of any kind of sexual misconduct and made no mention of the alleged assault.[6] A few years before she accused Biden of sexual assault, Reade repeatedly praised Biden on her personal Twitter account, retweeting or otherwise endorsing comments which characterized Biden as a leader in combating sexual violence."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation#

So you are just like the Trumpers. You WANT it to be true. That way you can justify your shitty comments.

I mean... honestly? Fuck it. There are multiple vaccines that have been available for months and they're all free of charge. Over 99% of new infections are from the unvaccinated. Why should people that followed all the rules and acted in good face have to suffer through a fourth round of layoffs for the sake of the stupid selfish assholes that refuse to help anyone including themselves?

"Teenagers aren't getting sufficient mental health treatment from qualified professionals" is a far cry from the "children aren't receiving soap and toothbrushes" conditions of the previous administration, and it's some Lanzman-level "both sides" bullshit to claim there's no difference.

Also, from the same article:

It's still not a perfect situation, but they're trying.

It's not just the unvaccinated. The Delta variant is killing vaccinated people, too. The bare minimum is shutting down. This is crazy that the US won't do this.

Also, get ready England, the US is allowing vaccinated people to travel there. I'm sure it will be fine.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/no-quarantine-for-vaccinated-us-citizens-traveling-to-england.html

They're not trying. Remember, I work with a bunch of refugee communities. The administration isn't trying so much as they're sweeping people under the rug and shuffling them around to different facilities, and COVID continues to spread among them. As for the situation not being perfect, of course not, but it is self-created.

There is no winning on the internet, only eternal struggle. No one is ever right or wrong depending upon your point of view. All I can try to do is tell people what's going on. How you accept or reject that is your choice.