shootER is Overjoyed, I'm Sure /Sarcasm

Like most Libertarian policies, they can ultimately be traced back to FYGM. Or in this case, Fuck You I Fell From A Vagina On The Right Side Of A Line On A Map.

Why is it that the US is the only country in the world that isn’t allowed to patrol their borders and not have any reasonable immigration laws?

I would be delighted if we had reasonable immigration laws.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of ground in between "don't patrol your borders at all" and "treat human beings like cattle in a rodeo."

Why is it you think anyone in this thread thinks that?

What country do you live in, because it is not the US. We employ lots of people to patrol our borders and even do tons of rounding up of foreigners. we have tons of immigration lawsd, many of which are overbearing and hateful.

Someone needs to get his ass back in school where he belongs.

Again, no direct evidence that anyone was whipped.

It's the attitude you guys give off every time there's an immigration destruction.

Did you read what @shootER said about watching actual video?

Or have you moved the goalposts to "as long as they don't actually get hit, treating people like cattle is okay"?

Why is it that a history major doesn't know this country was founded on immigrants and the Statue of Liberty is the engraved invitation, literally.

Yes I know @shootER claims to have seen a video of them whipping someone. Are we now accepting anecdotal evidence, because I now have anecdotal evidence that CRT is in fact being taught in High School.

Why is it that you assume I didn't know that and what does that have to do with this discussion?

@shootER is a more reliable source than you are.

How so?

uhm ... everything you've said in this thread so far.

Oh, and everything you've said on this board ever.

He has a 17-year track record here of being levelheaded and not making assertions without knowing what he's talking about. You have a track record of deciding what you want to be true, then digging in your heels deeper and deeper no matter what information comes up.

This country was not founded by immigrants, it was founded by colonists. A different situation. But yes, it was then built into what it is by immigration.

Fuck off.

Fucking semantics ... tryin' to act like one makes the other incorrect.

Jackass.

Sit down and be quiet.

Looks like FF is the one who is right this time. The person who took the photos of the encounter between the Border Patrol and the Haitians has stated to his local news station he did not see anyone be whipped, with reins or any other method.

https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-...troversial-photos-speaks-exclusively-to-ktsm/

You'd think that would be picked up quickly and distributed, but it hasn't been by most news agencies that I can find.

Biden has stated that the issue is under review, and it looks like the short term solution is to stop border patrol agents from using horses in their duties.

But that appears to be a response to optics, not to the facts of the case.

You tell me - when did Emma Lazarus' poetry become the law of the land?

The US has often spoken of high minded ideals - which it completely failed to live up to.

We need to see movement on immigration in Congress, and that will need to be dealt with by democrats winning against the ever more nativist know nothings of the Republican party.

But even then, we won't be seeing open borders. Lanzman's statement that our borders will be patroled and we will have immigration laws is a question of how many and what kind, not if.

My statement had nothing to do with laws or patroling or any thing else EXCEPT that every white person in this country either immigrated here or is a descendant of an immigrant.

I’m going to drop the bullshit for now. Of course @shootER is credible and I don’t doubt that he saw what he claims to have seen and nobody seems to be able to produce said video so unfortunately, even in @shootER ’s case, that’s called anecdotal evidence. Nobody on the left would accept that from @Paladin for example, would they? Now that that’s out of the way let’s address the, “I can’t believe a history major wouldn’t know X.” First of all, I’m well aware of what the Statue of Liberty is supposed to represent, we all do, we were taught about it since we were little kids. I’ve personally visited the statue twice. That engraving isn’t immigration law. History majors don’t work like some magic pill where you learn every nuance of human history that you retain every aspect of for the rest of your life. You usually specialize in one area be it ancient Roman history or Chinese history or in my case antebellum history. I only took the courses relative to that field of study, plus a few other required courses. I don’t use my degree and it’s been almost a decade since I studied any of that stuff. I admittedly haven’t done much follow up reading since. I did when I first graduated, but quickly fell off. So no, I’m not going to have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that happened since the founding of this country, but certain things I retain no matter what because they are important to me. So just because I can’t recite shit like I’m Data and Captain Picard asked me something and I go into so much detail that he has to tell me to shut up doesn’t mean I don’t know it or didn’t learn it. Sure, Don’t assume you know me, cause you don’t and assholes like @Diacanu trying to gaslight me into thinking, “hey maybe I really am this bad person he thinks I am”, that shit won’t be tolerated anymore. I had a long overdue talk with my sister and she reminded of what I grew up under and it wasn’t racist, Nazi parents, they were tolerant, good people who just happened to vote Republican, but now just simply being a Republican means you’re the enemy and that’s complete, utter bullshit. It’s no wonder why so many people “ran off”. You guys and gals can make fun of me if you want, but I’m really, really sick of this political shit to the point where I’m ready to just give up on voting all together. It’s not worth the hassle and nothing ever changes anyway. I’m not leaving WF, but I don’t think I’ll be participating as much except in MC so you win @We Are Borg . You basically get your wish.

The majority of immigrants enter legally, usually at airports, and then simply overstay their visa (and the concept of a visa and related quota system itself was an outgrowth of eugenics and other early 20th century US racism/xenophobia. Essentially, visas are a very recent concept for US immigration within the last 97 years). In this particular instance, entry for the purposes of seeking asylum is lawful. In fact, the US's actions in turning these refugees away arguably violates international and domestic law. Essentially, they are trying to enter lawfully and the US is saying no, despite its legal obligations not to turn them away.

This is not actually true anymore. Used to be, but now that's only about 40%.

No, I'm not trying to convince you you're a bad person.
That's your cognitive dissonance avoidance mechanisms preventing you from having to look uncomfortably at your bad but changeable behaviors.
Only people like Ramen and Storm are evil beyond hope.
And Dinner and Oldfella are dumb beyond hope.

Sorry, I edited to add to my post with the context of these refugees in particular.

On the issue of visa overstays, when did this change? I wasn't aware that visa overstays were now the minority of cases. A quick Google search shows that visa overstays still were the majority of cases as of 2019, but I couldn't find any information since then. If it changed in 2020, that would make sense: there was less travelling because of COVID and Trump implemented a few travel bans, both of which would necessary lead to fewer visas being issued in the first place.

Ok, didn't read that entire rant. But, this statement did stick out.

Our current political system here in the US is so totally fucked up as to have no real distinction between the two. The only real differences now seem to be which side supports the people and which side supports corporations.

Either way, the laws are written and financed to be approved by the wealthy. Nothing you vote for matters. If you truly are sick of "this political shit", I suggest you check out https://represent.us/. They breakdown everything and it's not just highlighting the problems, they actually have a solution. And, it is bi-partisan. In fact, I believe the first of the original sponsors is a Republican who approached a Democrat. The group was formed during the Obama years if that makes it easier for you to accept.

Did I read too quickly and get that backwards? I thought those were the 2019 statistics.

Name another mainstream political party in American politics that has actively undermined the country's democratic institutions.

Did Democrat supporters attack Congress on January 6th?

Did Al Gore spend all his time after losing the 2000 election ranting about how it was stolen from him?

Are Democratic governors actively working to undermine science and health professionals during a global pandemic?

I'm too tired to list all the ways the Republicans have attacked American democracy, but to any objective rational observer, the current iteration of the Republican Party is a national security threat. Ergo, an enemy.

So I'm going to drop the bullshit for now and say anyone who votes for them is an idiot and a traitor to the United States of America.

I support the right of every country to keep their borders as secure as they wish, and to choose who's allowed to enter. I'd like it if more countries accepted more refugees, but if a country can't or won't, I accept that's their right.

That said, I do have less tolerance for anti-immigrant sentiment coming from countries like Canada, Australia, and the USA, as those countries are mostly populated and ruled by the descendants of relatively recent colonizers and immigrants that just wandered over without jumping through any of the bureaucratic hoops that exist in modern times.

And I especially have very little tolerance for Americans that complain about "illegal immigrants" so long as the immigration system in the US remains an absolute shitshow, and a large chunk of the economy openly depends on the labour of those same illegals. You can't have it both ways.