Reactionary Radical Eliminationists vs. Trans

Plus it’s not like there aren’t lesbian sexual predators and they’ve been allowed in women’s restrooms forever. Ditto gay predators and men’s rooms. This is just not a serious problem.

well, damn... I was today years old whne I found this out.

We've always been here.

Cool vid. I'm sorry, but what was revelatory?

Meet Dr. Alan Hart.

This even more so in jail/prison settings. We need a lot better handle on stopping predatory sexual behavior IN GENERAL among the incarcerated before we worry overly much about the trans woman's penis.

That said, if it comes down to having to designate a facility which every convicted trans person is transferred to (because isolating one or two in any given prison would be cruel and unusual) then that's just a price that will need to be paid.

I'm more sympathetic to the argument about shelters, but if interaction is controlled where there's no common space (full or partial) nudity, you mitigate a lot of that because then you are bac to someone traumatizing themselves by imagining a theoretical penis, not because they SAW one.

Be interesting if/when they make nanobots, or a transporter, and they can resequence chromosomes, where the bigots move the goalposts to.
Hope bigotry is just persuaded away by then.
Hope humanity even makes it that far.

Although, if/when transitioning is just a nanite pill away, and if Christian Republicans are still a thing, you're gonna see a bunch of them line up for it.
Like anti-abortionists* buying abortions for their mistresses now.

*I refuse to call them pro-lifers, because they demonstrably aren't.

Related

There is so much more for us to worry about than men masquerading as women to access single-sex spaces | Kathryn Bromwich | The Guardian

(this is about the UK)






Judging by column inches alone, you might be forgiven for thinking that the thing keeping women awake at night is not femicide, sexual assault, plummeting rape convictions, stalking, unequal pay, the erosion of reproductive rights, workplace discrimination, rampant online misogyny, an institutionally sexist police force, healthcare inequality, insufficient childcare provisions, or never being allowed to age.

While all these issues do get reported, a disproportionate amount of attention is given to another topic: men masquerading as trans women in order to gain access to single-sex spaces.
Over the past few years this idea has become so pervasive it is now inescapable in the media, culture, higher education, politics and sports; ]Ipso research shows that reporting of trans issues increased by 400% between 2009 and 2019. It is worth noting that trans people make up ]roughly 0.5% of the UK population; instances of men infiltrating women-only spaces are few and far between (in Ireland, where self-identification has been legal since 2015, there has been no discernible adverse impact.

Yet it is precisely because these cases are so unusual that they become newsworthy: journalism’s “man bites dog” principle means that an event’s rarity determines its priority in the news agenda. If every single reported sexual assault got this kind of coverage – 199,021 sexual offences and 70,633 rapes last year – it would simply never end.

With so many real threats to women’s safety, it is confounding that this much time and attention is being lavished on a largely hypothetical risk. Every single case of someone being attacked is unacceptable, and everything must be done to protect women’s safety. Many cisgender women who support trans rights, myself included, have personal experience of sexual assault and take the topic extremely seriously. But the main threat to women comes overwhelmingly from men, not from trans women, who should not be penalised for the actions of predatory men. As a result, trans women and non-binary people are being excluded from single-sex spaces, putting them at a greatly increased risk of violence.
Transgender people are far more likely to be survivors of sexual assault than perpetrators. The US Department of Justice’s Office for Victims of Crime reports that 50% of transgender individuals are sexually abused or assaulted at one point in their lives, with some reports estimating the figure at 66% and even higher for groups such as transgender people of colour or with disabilities.

Your anecdote proves itself and nothing else. If I dig one up where it WAS a problem, you'll just dismiss it. Pointless to waste the time.

what anecdote? that's the policy of the shelter system.

the only thing to do with me here is that I work in two locations that provide very different types of service under the city (in turn based on provincial) policy. One is transitional (shelter) and the other is supportive (permanent) housing.

it doesn't matter what you cherry pick short of a shelter policy (and supporting stats) from a larger jurisdiction. Like, nobody cares what the policy in Nowhere, Arkansas is because the issue is unlikely to come up while Toronto has about 4000 shelter beds and needs another 10 000. No idea how many supportive housing places there are, but we've got about 150 where I work...

come at me with some actual facts next time, m'kay?

Completely irrelevant and avoidant of the argument. The secure female only places we are talking about have exposure to genitals where a penis would be triggering. A lesbian has a vagina. A trans woman who has gone through the commitment of surgery has a vagina. We are getting away from security from rape and into the triggering of victims, or even just forced to be naked with others who have a penis while having a vagina.

Like I have said, in suituations like public or the women's restroom where something has gone wrong if you are exposed to someone's genitals and see a penis, things are different, and there needs to be spaces for assault victims, or just basically women who do not want to see a penis to be exposed to them.

There are other reasons aside from assault that a woman might not want to be exposed to a penis. I am not saying they have to be common areas, but there does have to be some of them. The government has a need to provide some in circumstances like shelters and prisons. Private business can make their own decision on which way they wish to provide services.

To @Nova it is already happening that straight cis men are dressing in drag to lower the defenbses of girls and using that to get them drunk or con their way into their hotel rooms and safe spaces where they are alone to rape them.

It is actually so fucking normal for me to see the process I forgot about it. It happens at every big anime convention I go to. It is becoming more and more common also. If I have seen the start of the interaction, and have heard the horror stories online, I am sure there is a reality to the fact that girls have been raped at conventions by crossplaying males who have used crossdressing as a way of getting their confidence.

The fandom of anime likes to pretend there is not grooming at the conventions, but the reality is their lax attitude towards security has caused opening where the community has suffered things like date rape, rape by drugs, and rape by force. I can assure yopu some have been done by guys who crossplay to get victims.

Also, the trans community is not the sweet innocent community of pure innocent sexless creatures. A lot of transexual people have found freedom in the world of lose morality and drugs. A lot of them have been abused or are desperate for money or a place to survive so they have committed crimes for those purposes. A lot of them do not give a fuck about the feelings of people who would rather hurt them, so they hurt the world back and that has become their personality. The world treats us like shit, and some of us treat the world like shit back.

Yes, there is a danger going around a human who has been hurt and abused, and trans people are generally some of the most hurt and abused out there. Also, pretending to be a victim works, and if you can get away with sometyhing by putting on a dress and playing female damsel in distress, some people will do it, even cis men.

Again, this is not a reason to stop trans people from being themselves, but it is a reason to have a standard process for it, and if someone isn't traveling that path then we do not go putting them in with working dicks and people with vaginas. A wolf in sheep's clothing is a lot less dangerous if you defanged and declawed it. At that point if it is still going to do wolfy things, the sheep will only get gummed and pawed. It is a much better chance for the sheep.

Your anecdote is your experience with that policy, you obtuse fucking twat.

And I'm not all that interested in what happens in goddamn Canada, either.

Yeah, the only thing UA is interested in is how many licks it takes @Jenee to clean the stank off his nutsack. We currently don't know because we can't seem to get them out of her fucking mouth.

Back when I used to watch The Drunken Peasants, they had Milo Yiannopoulos on, and every argument TJ made, Milo shot down with "anecdotal! ".
It drove TJ up a wall, and he bitched about it all the next episode, and TJ's brother, being a brat who likes to annoy TJ, started going "aaaanecdoootaaal TeeeeJaaayy!!! ". Then that became a running gag of the show every time Milo came up for any reason.

Anyhoo, that pops in my head when UA does his "anecdote!" schtick now.

Aaaaaanecdooootal, YooooAyyyyy!!!

my experiences don't enter into this you lying sack of shit, I've simply stated a gorram fact. Something you don't appear to have any of in this discussion.


I wouldn't expect you to be interested in anything outside of your fevered little mind... you've amply demonstrated the capacity simply isn't there.

Odd that this tangent started with your own imaginary anecdotes about cis women in shelters being significantly against trans women in the space along with a few false claims about additional safety issues?


But, as noted... lying sack of shit...

page 42 Toronto Shelter Standards

(d) Shelter providers, Central Intake and the Streets to Homes Assessment and Referral Centre will conduct an initial assessment (i.e., a client screening procedure) in order to determine the service need(s) and related accessibility requirements or accommodation (i.e., modified service requirements) needs of a client.

(i) Shelter providers will ask all clients for their gender identity rather than assume.

(ii) Shelter providers will support the choices of transgender clients to gain access to sleeping areas designated for the gender the client identifies with and/or that will best preserve their safety and dignity.

(iii) In instances where transgender clients express concerns about their safety or dignity, shelter providers will accommodate requests for a bed in a genderneutral/private room, if possible, or in a sleeping area that the client believes will best preserve their safety and dignity, regardless of their gender identity.

it is already happening that straight cis men are dressing in drag to lower the defenbses of girls and using that to get them drunk or con their way into their hotel rooms and safe spaces where they are alone to rape them.

That's kind of a long-con thing though, it's not exactly an act of the same nature as what can be policed by bathroom/changing room laws... nor by the widespread bigoted forced-outing stuff that's starting to blow up.

But as a general behavioral thing - yes, shitty and often dangerous people are everywhere and in every demo - no objection from me.

Which, in my view, means it's wrong to restrict the rights of innocent third parties because some OTHER folks might fuck up. I've always found it hilarious that they same people who insist they are being oppressed if they aren't allowed to open carry a Tommy gun just because some OTHER person might shoot up a crowd with one ALSO think that all trans people should be stigmatized lest we risk the theoretical possibility that some perv is gonna whip a dick out. Particularly when we have a LOT of incidences of shitheads shooting up a place and VERY damn few documented cases of trans people being predatory.

heh-been my observation (accompaniable by anecdotes) that the "long con" crossdressers in clubs aren't looking to "lower the defenses" of young women, but of guys.

(This is why you NEVER grab the hair of a some giving you head in a toilet stall)

When you say "I work in one of those places," it is an anecdote.

Buy a fucking dictionary and jam it up your ass sideways, you complete fucking mongoloid.

I’ll take something that has never happened for $1000 please Alex

Men do not need to dress in drag to hurt women. They do it right out in the open.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che... trials.&text=New Bedford, Massachusetts, U.S.

This is a distraction. Men don’t want to accidentally rape transwomen. So, they make life unsafe for transwomen.

It’s that easy.

THEY WOULDN'T MAKE THOUSANDS OF PORNOS ABOUT IT IF IT WASN'T REALLY HAPPENING MAN

ANYWAY, TIME TO GET MY LAUNDRY


OH NO I'M STUCK IN THE DRYER AGAIN


HELP ME, STEP-POSTER

Yes, that happens. It is obvious at anime cons. There is a whole lot of crossplay today at cons too. I would guess at least a third of the guys in costume are in dresses and female costumes today. Yes, it is quite normal for people to try to hook up at large events like conventions, concerts and festivals.

As the repulsive male that you are you really have no idea of the amount of time women get hit on by creepy assholes. I only get a better glance at it. Any woman knows guys will do a whole lot of things, including dressing in drag, to get women. I will say it is actually very effective at getting women to notice and want to talk to you. Especially the good looking ones.

Men do not need to be priests to rape children, but it does make it easier. Coming out in women's clothing made it so much easier to get to talk to the women who would never look at me as a dude. That is not to mention the guys.

I have actually been surrounded at a con with people wanting to take a picture with me. This is back in the early 2000's whion crossplay was more rare and a pretty thin tall male in a cute well made loli dress was a fetishy thing in the anime con world, but people would stop me all the time for a picture. It was not even odd in regular SC and NC places. I used to joke with my friend that I should carry around some professional glossy photographs and sign them for people.

If I wasn't looking for girl friends, I could have scored a ton of girlfriends. There is no doubt in my mind that lonely geek boys got convinced to do the crossplay thing as a lark and then got OMG attention and went with it. It was that easy. There was a young black cis guy who IIRC went by cardcaptor will who had the most awesome representation of Sakura's red dress in the opening of CCS, and he used to do a little standup routing in the cosplay masquerade about it. Girls flocked, and he certainly could have hooked up, and may have. Even Manfaye probably had opportunity because of what he did.

It also is not that men do not want to rape transwomen. Yes, I am sure that is a thing for rapists, but a large number of men actually have a complex thinking they are gay for being attracted to a feminine form that happens to have a dick. It is something even guy who are open to the idea of a transwoman find weirds them out in the moment of truth. I stopped going after questioning cis guys who were all maybe I could with you. There is not anything more annoying than sucking off a guy who is two seconds before nutting and him pushing you away and running because all of a sudden he is weirded out. Been there, done that. We had discussed it for a long time, and he was a person I came out too. That moment scared him despite him claiming he was ok with gay BJs.

It is great when the straights like you, @Uncle Albert , and my boystalker @Ten Lubak tell me all about how things in my life don't happen. This is based on their small little world they do not come out of. Yeah, you all have so much experience in the queer, convention, and furry world to speak of. How many times have you been there? oh none, fucking not even a tourist.

i can see where you're coming from through the lens of having lived through a glam/goth phase during the 80s. I totally had an ass built for spandex back then and it took me places .

It is something that has had to be addressed at open safe spaces like anime, sci fi, and furry cons. These are actually places outside of GLBT communities where trans people have an opportunity to come out. I am not the only one I know of. Some young professionals find it is an excuse that is acceptable to dip their toe into trans behavior while not exposing themselves at work. Sort of like crossdressing ion halloween.

Again, I am not talking about restrooms as I feel they are a public space that is not fully exposed. I have been into female dressing rooms shopping with a friend for bride'smaids dresses and dresses for a wedding where I have tried on clothing in an area where you could see people in their undergarments. There were private curtained areas you could use to be fully naked and change or get assistance with zippers and fit. That might trigger someone who was assaulted, but it is also a voluntary customer service location which you can leave if you want. I have found professional dressmakers are just fucking awesome with the trans male community because we make some great billboards. If the dress makes me look awesome and pretty, imagine what it will do for a cis woman with actual female curves.

Even though the bathrooms are a necessity for trans people, and no one should be checking any ID unless something wrong has occurred. Just because I walked into the ladies room is not a reason to call the police. There is no real assurance only women will be in there. OTOH there are other areas where a person should expect a gender safe space. There may also be cause for private sports leagues to restrict trans participation in female only events. I am only giving this to private sports leagues and not school recreational competition play. A private league, which includes professional and olympic competitions, has a concern over fairness which they can make their decisions upon. A trans woman not being able to play a fucking game for a living is at the low level of my concern. However, participation in social recreational sports and games, even those with competition, needs to be inclusive as being a part of the community. Rec leagues are for playing the game on a multitude of levels and not being the best of the best.

If there is a cause for a female only league the participation of a transwoman as a woman should be encouraging for women with the proper message. If the trans woman is coming in dressed and acting as a guy, then that is not a she. If they are coming into a female only chess league andf they are clearly living or participating as a woman, then they should be allowed to participate as a woman. That whole thing is to expand the realm of femininity to include that game, and transwomen can do that.

Now that you mention it, how many bands have worn traditionally female clothing, and then had relationships with women based on those costumes which have been non-consensual? in the 80's dudes were dressing up like women and raping. To say thaty shit did not happen, and the style of dress did not mean anything is missing the point. @Nova and @Amaris when it happens on a popular level like that we tend to normalize the behavior into a bunch of men being shitty guys who will use something they see as an in to get into women's bodies.

I am not saying we have to stop doing what we do. I am saying we cannot turn a blind eye to it just to get more traction with the bigots because the predators look for that blind spot. For instance if we walk into the ladies room as a trans woman and see some dude using the trans identity to do wrong things, we need to grab him by the scruff of his neck and get him out. We cannot sit there and let him get away by saying he is just another trans woman, because someone is going to try that if they have not already. The more common and accepted we get to be, the more we will have to fight that because the less negative stigma there will be to keep that from being a way that male predators consider.

Again, I am not saying no. I am saying we have to proceed with vigilance against these people. We cannot fuck around as much because the allowance of fucking around means people are going to fuck around. It is the same argument that the religious should be heeding and start recording their areas because anything a priest does with little kids should be able to be seen by the public.

Yes I know, if the you who pretends you hate me and think I am a total loser ever met the you who is obsessed with me and hot on me ever met your universe would implode, but that does not change reality. You are ther canadian UA for a reason.