Bush attacks immigration deal opponents

AP - President Bush attacked opponents of an immigration deal Tuesday, suggesting they "don't want to do what's right for America."

"The fundamental question is, will elected officials have the courage necessary to put a comprehensive immigration plan in place," Bush said against a backdrop of a huge American flag.

He described his proposal — which has been agreed to by a bipartisan group of senators — as one that "makes it more likely we can enforce our border — and at the same time uphold the great immigrant tradition of the United States of America."

Bush spoke at the nation's largest training center for law enforcement.
He chose the get-tough setting as conservative critics blast a Senate proposal as being soft on people who break the law. Hoping to blunt that message, Bush emphasized that any new options for immigrants and foreign workers would not start until tougher security is in place.

The presidential stop came during a congressional recess, with senators back home and facing pressure from the left and right on the immigration plan. Bush's aim is to build momentum for the legislation, perhaps his best chance for a signature victory in his second term. The Senate expects to resume debate on it next week.

"A lot of Americans are skeptical about immigration reform, primarily because they don't think the government can fix the problems," Bush said.
"And my answer to the skeptics is: give us a chance to fix the problems in a comprehensive way that enforces our border and treats people with decency and respect. Give us a chance to fix this problem. Don't try to kill this bill before it gets moving," Bush told students and instructors at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

Bush repeatedly cast the matter as one of political courage.
"Those determined to find fault with this bill will always be able to look at a narrow slice of it and find something they don't like," the president said. "If you want to kill the bill, if you don't want to do what's right for America, you can pick one little aspect out of it.

"You can use it to frighten people," Bush said. "Or you can show leadership and solve this problem once and for all."

The bill would give temporary legal status to millions of unlawful immigrants, provided they came forward, paid a fine and underwent criminal background checks. To apply for a green card, they would have to pay another fine, learn English, return to their home country and wait in line.

The plan also would create a guest worker program. It would allow foreign laborers to come to the U.S. for temporary stints, yet with no guarantee they can eventually gain citizenship.

Both the new visa plan and the temporary worker program are contingent on other steps coming first. Those include fencing and barriers along the Mexico border, the hiring of more Border Patrol agents and the completion of an identification system to verify employees' legal status.

The legislation would also reshape future immigration decisions. A new point system would prioritize skills and education over family in deciding who can immigrate.

Georgia's senators both played leading roles in producing Bush's deal with the Senate. Yet they have also said they may not support the final bill, depending upon how it is amended.

Bush chastised those who say the proposal offers amnesty to illegal immigrants. He called it empty political rhetoric.
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In other words, America, go fuck yourself.

Even if he's right on this, the "you don't want to do right by America" schtick is getting fucking annoying.

No-one else in Western government bothers making such pathetic jingoistic statements (well, no-one outside the various irrelevant parties like the BNP, anyway), so why is it that the supposedly free-est nation on Earth buys into this crap?

Because Americans have far less attention spans and generally place no real value on words unless it somehow catches their attention.

Because the rest of the Western world (read: Europe) de-legitimized the nation-state in the eyes of its people by engaging in two world-wide wars that resulted in those selfsame nation-states being burned to the ground, mired in economic stagnation, and/or dominated by totalitarians. European states have failed so badly in the eyes of their own public that the very idea of patriotism must seem to them a kind of perverse joke; it's equally perverse to Americans that these same states continue to be entrusted with so much control and influence over daily life.

We Americans still believe in the idea of America. They may be different ideas for a liberal and a conservative, but nonetheless we still have something in our common existence worth preserving and defending, something that ties us to our land, our culture, our institutions, and our history in a way that many Europeans can no longer understand.

You can't explain belief to people who have none.

Nice rhetoric, but true belief isn't cheap meat to be exploited like offal by the butcher when it suits him, so try again.

You may decry the European disdain of nationalism (not patriotism, only a fool would confuse the two) but we've had ample experience of the sort of shit Bush is trying to pull. Doesn't mean we don't feel proud of our accomplishments, just means we don't feel the need to wave our dicks around over them or accuse anyone with a different opinion of being unpatriotic.

If Bush includes himself and everybody in Washington in that statement, he's finally gotten something right.

You make my case for me. I explain it to you and you chalk it up to cheap rhetoric.

I'm often struck with the notion (and I'm not saying it's true, only that it seems so) that Europeans can't easily distinguish nationalism and patriotism.

Does being English...or British...or European (or whatever identity you most ascribe to vis-a-vis political structure) mean anything to you? Can you write a heartfelt description of what you think is special and unique and worth preserving and defending about your country (or kingdom or union) without feeling like you're waving your dick?

"well mr president, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck..."

"oooh! oooh! i know this one, is it a kangaroo?"

Because, the way you put it, it was.

We know the difference. But you're correct that we seem afraid of one lest it lead to the other.

Yes. I'm proud we stood practically alone against the worst evil this planet has ever known while some sat back and profitted from it and later proclaimed they were the saviours of humanity. I'm proud we put fish and chips together. I'm proud we came up with Doctor Who, a piece of science fiction even Harlan Ellison thinks is the dog's gonads. I'm proud that we came up with the foundations upon which the free-est society on Earth (Canadian) is built. Oh, and the Americans, I guess. And I'm damn proud we came up with Kate Beckinsale and Keeley Hawes and Billie Piper and Freema Agyeman, all of whom DO make me feel like waving my dick a hell of a lot more than any of the silicone-enhanced slappers that have come out of the colonies recently.

But none of this for one damn minute means that Tony Blair can get away with "if you don't agree with my policies, you hate Britain", and if you have any such feeling for your own nation, you shouldn't let Bush (or anyone) pull the same crap either.

Were we to get rid of all the government-provided (not the government-protected) advantages to being in the US as opposed to Mexico et al., and got rid of the government-provided motivations to avoid hiring US citizens, I should think that the only necessary function of the border patrol would be to prevent criminals, spies, and saboteurs from entering the country and the only function of the INS to do background checks and medical checks before issuing green cards. I look forward to that day.

I'm glad you're proud of the fish and chips, attractive actresses and models, sci-fi television programming, and the achievements of others (Canadians for their free society, Americans for fighting the two worst evils the planet has ever known). Those things are all cornerstones of a great society well worth defending.

You know what my country means to me? Self-government. Abolishing the monarchy (least ways what applies to us). Individual freedom and limited government codified in a written constitution. Technological achievement. Entrepreneurship. Inventiveness. Tolerance. Military prowess. Law and order. Peace. Stability. Prosperity.

I know those seem like hollow, empty things to be proud of. But, gosh, you already mentioned the "silicone-enhanced slappers"...

That's because for you 'Britain' doesn't mean anything. Oh, if someone were to take away your Kate Beckinsale or fish and chips, I'm sure every Englishman would take up arms (or, whatever you can subsitute for arms, anyway) and fight. But the idea of Britain is not something, in your mind, that needs definition. If one person can't say what it's not, then another can't say what it is.

Well, America means something to me. I don't go around calling everyone who disagrees with me "America-hater" and, in fact, neither does George W. Bush (who seems often credited with/villified for things he's never actually said). But if you're an American against many of those things that I listed? You probably do hate America; at least, you hate my America. And my America is the one I'm working towards.

From what I hear, the proposed immigration bill would immediately legalize every illegal here before January 1 of this year.

Not one of those 12-30 million people would have to do a thing to maintain this legalized status.

They would have to jump through hoops to become citizens, but who says most of them would want to do this? Why should they when they can get everything they want without being citizens -- multilingual ballots, free education, free medical care, welfare, etc.

So much for this not being amnesty. This is a repeat of Reagan's amnesty for 2.5 million illegals back in the 80s. Now we have 12-30 million. Tomorrow, with the green light this amnesty will give to prospective border jumpers, we'll have 50-100 million.

As for the employer verification system to deal with future illegal immigrants, the legislation requires only that it be established, not that it be used or that it be successful.

In other news, the Reagan Presidential Library collapsed when a minor earthquake erupted just under the former President's grave.

I don't know how someone of your apparent intelligence can spout this shit with a straight face.

While it sucks, lets be realistic, here...there is no way we can afford to send all those assholes back, even if we had the manpower and the funds to even round 'em up. Something has to be done, and while I have no interest in seeing them made citizens, such things aren't up to me...Plus, something has to be done...this is why we elect representatives.

What we have to start doing is electing ones that actually do this...represent us and not what they think we want or what they think is in our best interests.

"This" being something, though it's not up to you to say what that something is?

Yes! That must definitely be done right away!

Honestly, care to explain what that post was supposed to mean?

It means we can't allow 12+ million people to continue to reside here illegally...and we can't afford to send them back.

We couldn't possibly "round up" 12 million immigrants, and even if we could, it would be absolutely the wrong thing to do.

If we had the chops that we claim to as the "greatest nation" on Earth, we would not only thank them for being here, but make sure that they're not exploited for their labor. If there's one reservation I have about immigration, it's that the lives immigrants are forced to lead makes us complicit in their oppression.

Instead of persecuting immigrants for coming to seek a better life, we should thank them for helping reaffirm our country's reputation as a land of opportunity. Instead of lowering ourselves by standing on their necks, we should lift them up and reaffirm our own humanity by ensuring that we recognize theirs.

The worst possible thing we could do is deport them. The second worst thing would be to maintain the status quo and allow their exploiters the freedom to harm them as they please.

Oh, they're things to be proud of. I'm proud that I can say the same about a lot of them for my own country, but I thought the point was to mention what's unique about our own countries? Neither America nor Britain have a monopoly on any of the things you mentioned.

[action=phantomofthenet]steps up to the podium after Bush leaves.[/action]

"Mr. President - Clueless, inbred and sucking Mexican cock is no way to go through life, son."

Okay, we can't keep them and we can't ship them back. So we have to make them willing to leave. If we cut off the welfare gravy train and the anchor-baby citizenship jackpot for illegals, their financial incentive to stay would quickly dry up and they would find it much less appealing to stay.

Why not shoot at illegals who cross the border. Solves problem easily.

Because there's only one of Storm and ammo is expensive?

Baba, the illegal aliens have come up with a cunning new plan to keep this from working: they're going to embed lipstick lesbians in groups trying to sneak over teh border. You wouldn't want to shoot a lipstick lesbian, would you?

'samazing how many people here agree with Rush Limbaugh on this issue...

Be interesting to find out just how many are off their tits on Vicodin, wouldn't it?

What's Rush Limbaugh's position? I need to know whether I have to adjust mine.

If it's an attack on immigrants, it's okay by Lush Rimbag. Unless, of course, it's the proper kind of immigrants -- rich, white, and conservative.

Well that's a relief! I'd hate to know that windbag shares any of my opinions.

To call him a windbag is to offend bags of wind.