That's the stupidest thing you've ever said. "The government" isn't a sentient creature. It's a system used by people, a tool for getting things done. It doesn't "act on it's own volition" any more than a gun or an abacus. You're blaming "the government" when you should be blaming people. People are the problem, not some mindless tool that somehow terrifies you.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -George Washington
If only WorldNetDaily would do a story on Hillary Clinton sightings, we could all breathe a sigh of relief, knowing the existence of the foul creature was entirely mythical. Oh, wait -- it doesn't work that way. How many times, class, must we cover this: Where an article comes from doesn't mean shit. The validity or invalidity of the article rests on the article itself. And again, but slower, just to make sure no child gets left behind: Who say, not matter. What say, matter. This come up again, I'm-a hunt a fucker down and slap 'm around with dead animals.
Yeah, you're right. I said it like the first part. I should have said it how Scott did at the end: Dr. Evil: Our early attempts at a tractor beam went through several preparations. Preparations A through G were a complete failure. But now, ladies and gentlemen, we finally have a working tractor beam, which we shall call... Preparation H. [Scott snickers] Dr. Evil: What? Scott Evil: Why don't you just call it operation ass-cream, you ass. Dr. Evil: I'm sorry, did you say you want some ice cream? Scott Evil: Yes, I'd love some chocolate ass-cream. Dr. Evil: Perhaps later. Number 2: Dr. Evil, I love your plan. Dr. Evil: You do? Frau Farbissina: Yah. It's a really good plan. Dr. Evil: Yes Frau, on the whole Preparation H feels good. [Scott resumes snickering] Dr. Evil: What is it now? Scott Evil: No, I totally agree with you. Preparation H does feel good... on the hole. Doh! J.
That's how the nefarious "they" will come at you sideways in the future. You can buy a dependable and durable handgun for self defense, a gun I'm willing to bet my life on for $350. A dependable and durable safe that is guaranteed to deter the average burglar through mass alone (so it can't be carried off) starts at $1,000 and goes upwards to about $20,000.
Apostle? Really? If I had to end up in a situation where my life depended on someone from Wordforge, I'd probably want it to be Elwood. With most of the military or ex-military guys a close second.
Who is being stupid again? A government is made up of people. A gun is made of inanimate parts. A gun can do nothing without an individual acting on it in a direct manner. A government can pass a bail out bill even though the majority of the people strongly oppose it. So tell me again which of these things can "act on it's own volition".
Government is, by definition, the power to do what would otherwise be illegal - perpetrating aggression and fraud - without consequences to those who do so.
Five or six years ago I would have gotten really excited about this thread. Not now. The anti's don't have the numbers, I donate to the NRA, and none of my weapons have a paper trail leading to me.
Wow. I had no idea this thread would go this long. For as much as people claim to be 'tired' of the topic, I guess it's still a hot topic, ain't it? Although I'll continue to post threads like this (because the forum thrives on lively discussion, even if it's a discussion we've had a million times) I tend to agree 100% with what Evenflow said: I don't worry about this stuff anymore. Oh, I'll still debate and fight the good fight, but the people have already spoken. Guns and ammo have flown off the shelves at record rates in the past 8 months. You want a true to life opinion poll? My friends, you've got one. The people have spoken, and they've spoken up overwhelmingly for their 2A rights. Even died in the wall liberals are buying guns and 'prepping' because they know the score deep down. The thing is, it's not just the 2A that's driving this, but the knowledge that our Constitution and our way of life is grounded in the 2A- people understand that when the 2A goes away, the Constitution, BOR, and every other precept we've believed in goes away as well. The dems have a solid lock on the government and gun control is the new third rail. Why? Because they know. They get it. The OP article is a bit OTT in places- I'll be the first to admit it. But the bottom line is that Americans are Americans. I'll bet even Actormike had a grandfather or a great-uncle or someone who stormed the beach at Normandy, or fought at Iwo Jima or whatever. Thanks to School House Rock, thanks to Civics 101, and thanks to Barnes and fucking Nobles we have a population that has read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the writings of the Founding Fathers, and they get it. Guys, the government is scared to death. We surround them, and they know it. There is time and there is the means to resolve this without bloodshed or resorting to arms. Violence is and always shall be the last resort of civilized men- that is the American Way and has been from the time of the inception of this nation. But folks like me, ordinary Americans, the 'Joe the Plumbers' of the world, folks like the Governor of Texas and the State Legislature of Montana, are putting the government on notice- return to Constitutional principles, or face the inevitable consequences. I'll close this post with a little quote from Patrick Henry:
No, a government is system used by people. Government is a tool, like the metric system, or the alphabet. It's something we use for organization. I can see why you'd want to blame the things you don't like about some governments on some vague group of people that somehow aren't just like you, but that's not the case. Blame the user, not the tool. Aggression against who, exactly? If you're talking about waging war or punishing criminals, those would both arguably be legal as self-defence. But without a government in the first place, how would anything really be "illegal?"
Would it surprise you to learn in all my 'networking' on this issue that former Marines are the most easily identifiable militant group of all? It makes the DHS report seem all the more clear when you begin to see how many are out there...
When you started contemplating the violent overthrow of your elected government and began worshipping the CSA.
So, I assuming you all are up in arms because Obama actually enacted a specific new gun-control law/legislation. Not just because you are calling him a "gun-grabber" with no legitimate basis for that allegation? Right? Uh, right....?
What, because you want to make a retarded semantic argument that you're going to about until you get your way? A gun exists separately from it's user(s), it's an object. If the person who's got it in his hand doesn't want it to discharge, the trigger won't be pulled and no bullet will exit the gun. A government can't exist separate from the people who act in authority. The government isn't a building, so when you subtract it's human infrastructure, the government ceases to exist. The government isn't a piece of paper or set of documents. Without organic component parts giving it the ability to act, it can have no effect. So, in your feeble-minded argument, the government is compared to the gun (you said it yourself, the government is a tool). If it's a tool of "We The People", then it should respond to our will. If we don't pull it's trigger, it shouldn't fire. And yet, that's exactly what it does. How many weepy hippies have contended over the last 8 years that, "The majority of Americans don't want the war in Iraq"? And yet, we're still there. Either all of the protests, anti-war blogs, Code Pink rallies and internet forum kvetching is wrong, or the government failed to respond when we stopped pulling the trigger. Now, if you want to change your argument to claim that the government is not really a tool of "We The People" but instead a tool of the people who're intrinsic to it's function (and that it is acceptable that it acts autonomously, defiantly and in contempt of the will of "We The People") then you've given a really compelling argument as to why it's time for a complete overhaul.
Y'know, this ain't over. The Heller decision was a close one, and now Souter is retiring from the Supreme Court, with a couple of the other Justices quite likely to follow. Obama and the Democrat-controlled Congress will of course appoint liberal activists to replace them, so things might yet go south for the Second Amendment. Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen . . .
Has anyone bothered to point out that the kid could have just as easily hung himself, or slit his throat, or taken a bath with a hair dryer, or any number of other ways there are to off one's self?
Wait, I'll recite the antis pat answer: "But he didn't, because a gun makes killing as easy as pushing a button!"
No. I've learned from them that gun safety is FIRST. That you do NOT pick up a weapon unless you know what will happen if you leave it lying around, or if you don't take the right precautions. I've learned a lot about gun safety by reading this forum.
Somewhat less than half of all wars (counting each side's actions as one war) in history have been defensive (no, it's not always one party aggressing against another; historically, it's often been two empires bent on conquering the same place), so that example isn't a very good one. But I'm talking about taxes and prohibitions. In this respect the government is no different from the mafia, except with the mafia, everyone recognizes a person's right to self-defense if they don't want to pay protection money when mafia subsequently sends a thug to break their kneecaps or kidnap them. With a government, we call the latter jailing or imprisonment. Call it "immoral" then, or "violations of a person's rights under natural law", or something to that effect. "what would otherwise be illegal" was shorter than the latter and left less room for feigned outrage over a deliberate misunderstanding of the former.
If you could count on them to try to maintain an appearance of being rationale, you'd think that's what you'd hear. The parents of this kid are suing the school district, the president of the school board, and the teachers who witnessed the bullying and failed to act, so the district itself has held several meetings to reinforce their commitment to "transparency" and to reassure the community that they're actually doing something about bullying. Without fail, the anti-gun nuts have been picketing/rallying outside of these meetings. At one of those meetings someone made the argument that Captain X just advanced, and the guy on the bullhorn that night just shouted him down saying something to the effect of, "We're not talking about suicide, we're talking about guns." I thought that pretty much underscored the fact this movement is peopled with myopic, fanatical ideologues who don't give a shit about the realities of any issue, let alone gun control. Most satisfyingly, that night, the idiot on the bullhorn (along with his merry band of unwashed, patchouli-soaked layabouts) were shoe-ed off by police because the crowd, who was there to find out what the district was doing to address the issues which led to the suicide, turned ugly after hearing the "we're talking about guns" crack.
Souter voted against the Heller majority. The justices most likely to retire would be the liberal ones -- Stevens (in his late 80s) and Ginsburg (76 and with cancer) who joined him in dissent. It seems doubtful Scalia, Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Kennedy -- the Heller majority -- are going anywhere. In other words, Obama is at most only going to be able to replace moderate to liberal justices with liberal to radical left justices, and they will still generally be in a minority. Not to mention that the federal judiciary as a whole has lots of conservative justices now who would likely decide cases applying Heller from that side of the bench.
I do practice personal responsibility. What you describe is practicing responsibility for other people.
Interesting. I was all set to link to the page on WhiteHouse.gov where Obama talks about banning guns to show Idiot bryce, but they've either finally taken that bit down or moved it somewhere else.
