How Would You Fix Star Trek: Nemesis?

Nemesis seems to be the most universally reviled Star Trek movie and I tend to agree with that assessment.

However, lets say you were given control of the film, an editing program, and a modest budget to change special effects or whatever regarding the movie.

How would you make it better?

Rules

1) You have to keep the basic story intact. That is Shinzon hoping to overthrow the Romulan govt. and use a WMD against Earth.

2) You can only use existing live action footage already available though you can reedit it however you like.

Any thoughts? I'll post my suggestions later.

More space battles.

More space sex due to boredom.

[COMMIE][/COMMIE]

True.

I'll get to that later.

Oh what the heck

1) Delete all references to Shinzon as a clone of Picard.
2) Delete all scenes and references to the Remans as much as possible.
3) Add four TNG era Romulan Warbirds to assist Shinzon's ship in the final big battle.
4) Add a Defiant class, Nebula class, and Galaxy class starship to the final battle to engage the four Romulan Warbirds.
5) Delete the "death" of Data.

There's so much wrong with that movie, I'd just do something completely different. Like not make an aping of TWoK, for one.

Take every copy of the film, the DVD's, Blu Rays, and VHS tapes and burn them.

You can't fix Nemesis by subtraction; you just get a shorter lackluster movie. And addition of VFX won't improve the film's weaknesses.

But allowing for some rewrites?

This is off the top of my head...

1. Start with the outbreak of a Romulan civil war. It can be Remans vs. Romulans, that still works.

2. Shortly after Riker and Troi's wedding, the Enterprise is lured to a sector of space near the Romulan border and Picard is kidnapped by Romulan special forces types.

3. Data cleverly locates Picard on a Romulan planet used for biological weapons research.

4. Riker orders the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone to stage a clandestine rescue.

5. Riker, Worf, Dr. Crusher, and a group of red--er, yellow--shirts infiltrate the station and rescue Picard.

6. They learn that Picard was kidnapped in order to be the basis for a bio-weapon, a virus intended to kill the Reman leader. Everyone wonders why.

7. Before the Enterprise can leave, the Scimitar appears. Reman shock troops beam down and overrun the base, capturing the Enterprise crewmembers. Simultaneously, the Scimitar starts pounding the Enterprise. One of the shock troops--helmeted so we can't see his face--sees Picard and, after a moment, orders the battle to end.

8. Picard and company are taken aboard the Scimitar. The helmeted trooper turns out to be Shinzon. He's fascinated with Picard but does not yet reveal himself. We learn that Shinzon was attacking the base so the Romulans couldn't use it in the civil war.

9. The Remans salvage a weapon from the station. Geordi and Data attempt to analyze it from the Enterprise, which is adrift but under repair.

10. Shinzon reveals himself to Picard. Dr. Crusher surmises that Shinzon is a clone, made from Picard back when he was captain of the Stargazer. Picard and Shinzon find they have many similarities. Shinzon states he will allow the Enterprise to leave, since he has no grudge against the Federation. Shinzon seems honorable enough.

11. Picard returns to the Enterprise to check on repairs, which are almost complete. Geordi and Data tell him what they suspect about the weapon. Picard, invited back to dine with Shinzon, says he will attempt to inspect the weapon. Picard and Worf have dialog that indicates they're planning something.

12. At dinner, Picard and Shinzon recount their lives. Picard surreptitiously scans the weapon in the Scimitar cargo bay. It confirms his worst fear: it's the technobabble-substance-that-kills-anyone-who-even-thinks-about-it. Picard scan is detected by Shinzon's second-in-command (okay, it can be the Reman viceroy).

13. The viceroy confronts Picard. Shinzon admits that he's using the technobabble weapon to eradicate the Romulans, who have been a constant source of misery for him and the Remans. Picard appeals to him to reconsider, but Shinzon won't have it. Shinzon says that Picard is his prisoner and that the Enterprise will be destroyed to keep knowledge of this weapon from spreading.

14. Picard makes a clever and daring getaway, facilitated by Worf (their earlier plan) and the Scimitar is momentarily crippled. Picard orders the Enterprise to Romulus. The crew is stunned, but Picard says the Romulans face annihilation if they aren't warned.

15. The Enterprise arrives at Romulus, where it is given a unfriendly reception by a dozen warbirds. Picard transmits a scan of the weapon and says Shinzon will use it. The Romulans relent and agree to talk to Picard.

16. Picard speaks to the Romulan Senate and explains the situation. He makes an appeal to the Praetor to put aside distrust and to let the Enterprise stand with them in the battle. The Praetor agrees and sees in Picard the leadership that drew the Remans to Shinzon.

17. Scimitar arrives and epic battle ensues. Enterprise and Scimitar survive, but are both crippled.

18. Shinzon leaves the Scimitar in a shuttlecraft, carrying the superweapon. He's headed for THAT ONE LOCATION on Romulus where unleashing it will kill all the Romulans.

19. Picard and Data pursue in another shuttlecraft. A dogfight and an episode of aerial bumper-cars ensue. Both shuttles crash. Shinzon claws his way out of the wreckage and moves toward the goal. Data is damaged: cut in half at the waist. Picard pursues Shinzon.

20. Picard and Shinzon duke it out just short of the goal. Shinzon gets the upper hand, but half-Data shows up just in time to help the good guys win. Shinzon dies in some spectacular fashion, and the weapon is disarmed.

21. Picard and Riker look certain to face some Starfleet disciplinary actions, but some kind words from the Romulan praetor about helping stop a madman and end the civil war gets them off the hook.

22. The Enterprise, somewhat the worse for wear, heads home.

what is this "Nemesis" of which you speak?

There's no fixing Nemesis. The premise is flawed, and since the premise is the foundation of the structure, a structure built on a catastrophically flawed premise cannot stand.

Paladin's suggestions are fine as far as redressing the secondary flaws which stem from the primary premise, but the primary premise is inherently flawed, and therefore nothing short of an entirely different premise would "Fix" Nemesis -- meaning that Nemesis would cease to be an applicable title to the project, because the premise, the structure and by necessity the title would be entirely different.

In short: Nemesis cannot be fixed. It was so fundamentally broken that no fix is or ever was possible. That story cannot be salvaged and, therefore, would never have been the same film in any meaningful way.

I actually find Nemesis more watchable than any of the TOS-based films. Those outdated production values, FX, and costumes are just a huge turn off.

This.

If we can make substantial changes: Rather than having Shinzon be a purely biological clone of Picard, have him be a memories and all copy from Stargazer time. He is a version of Picard that was imprisoned and tortured and felt abandoned for decades, subject to continuous attempts at brainwashing to use him as a weapon which ultimately left him insane and hellbent on revenge. He rises up with the Remans who he says as oppressed and deserving freedom, and intends to weaken both the Romulans and Federation by starting a war between them, using captured Romulan ships against Federation outposts.

Keeping to the thread rules: Use that effects budget to green screen the characters onto the Enterprise D instead, cut out Datas death (show him being transported away at the last moment) and just make it a Season 7 double episode.

Flesh out the character of Shinzon's penis.
Have him/it played by the Harry Balls puppet from Troma.
Have during the "mind rape", scene, Harry actually charms Troi.
Have Harry hanging out of Shinzon's fly every time he vidphones, and Troi blushes, smirks, and waves to him.
Have Riker notice this, and blush with rage.
Have the third time, a tear of defeat roll down Riker's cheek.
Instead of Ron Perlman, Riker fights Harry Balls.
Harry wins, and Spiderman-webs Riker to the wall.
Riker resigns in disgrace. Come on, turning down a captaincy for 14 fucking years? Sheesh.

You are dead to me.

Fixing NEM is like trying to scrap mayo off a sandwich.

I'm with JC on this--the premise was way too fucked up. However, the removal of the B-4 B-S (which served no purpose but to have a vessel for Data to place his [-]katra[/-] memories in) would have freed up about ten minutes for shit that could possibly not sucked too much.

Also, fuck Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner and their ideas for movie plots.

This.

That Mythbusters episode aside, you can't polish a turd.

Personally, I have no serious problem with Nemesis. It's not even close to the least watchable of the Star Trek films. In particular, I like it's exploration of the genetics-environment-free will debate about the origin of behavior. I guess if I was going to change something, it would be to develop that further and bring out some things more clearly.

But then, I know I don't take Star Trek films nearly as seriously as a lot of you do. I just watch them, say, "Yeah, some of that doesn't make a lot of sense but it was fun anyway," and continue on with my life, like I do with about every other film I watch...

And that's what's so frustrating about Nemesis -- its theme (as opposed to its premise; they're not the same thing) which could have been stated as either "nature vs. nurture" or possibly even "artifice versus nature versus nurture" had great potential for great storytelling.

One of the ways the writers fucked that up was by bringing in the "Data & B-4" subplot. Obviously, as has been pointed out, they did that to give Data his "Death Escape Hatch" a la Spock.

They shouldn't have. Brent Spiner's reason for no longer wanting to play Data was a solid one -- he was already aging out of the part.

Well... fine. Know what that means? Data can't come back.

So don't rob that death of its impact by being so goddamn on the nose with the escape hatch. Data's very existence mirrors the Picard/Shinzon artifice v. nature v. nurture question. Always did, and on at least a subconscious level, anybody who had watched TNG knew that all through the film, which is why B-4 was nothin' but cheese the second people saw him.

(Also, most people who had watched TNG remembered Lore, which made the Enterprise goin' anywhere near another prototype of Data a total WTF proposition.)

It's not fixable. It sucks on every possible level and I found it physically painful to watch.

Actually, I'd rate Nemesis ahead of The Final Frontier and Insurrection, but that's just me. I really don't think this is a worthwhile exercise because the very core of this movie is rotten. Not only is the clone of Picard and Data ridiculous, how the producers handled the growth of the characters was just plain bad. After 7 years of TV shows and another 7 years of movies, why did Data still not understand human concepts like humor? Don't even get me started. When I think about other bad Trek movies, I think of them as just bad movies, but with Nemesis, I actually get angry because not only did it kill the franchise, it failed to grow some of my favorite TV characters. I try to think of TNG ending with First Contact.

Nemesis is better than Insurrection by a country mile. I think one of the only problems it has is Stuart Baird. He had no clue about Star Trek, the longevity of the cast and their relationships. didn't know the characters and edited the fuck out of key scenes, like the post-Data death scene, so that they had little impact. Indeed, on the deluxe DVD there's a cut scene between Picard and Data that really expands on questions of mortality and foreshadows his death. They are even drinking the same wine, hence the reason Picard serves it later in the film. But Baird had no clue that this scene would've actually meant something to the audience and chopped it out.

Baird's handling of it was what spoiled it for me. That and maybe Tom Hardy (despite him now being a very good actor). Otherwise I don't actually mind it and can happily put it on for Sunday afternoon mindless TV. I can never do that with Insurrection, which just makes me cringe. It feels like a Voyager episode made for the screen. Ugh.

Make an actual movie out of it instead of an overlong episode. While the basic idea is not so bad for a Trek movie, the execution is so flawed it's hopeless. A complete failure by the director and the screenwriter - and the suits who hired both. However, I wonder how much B&B meddled with the script since Logan is not a bad writer. Baird is better off hidden in the cutting room.

And despite all the flaws it's still better than INS.

Revisionist nonsense. Nemesis is a mess from start to finish and an ego trip for Stewart and Spiner.
Insurrection is an uninspired extended episode with a few cringe moments.
Simple test: watch both with a non fan and count how often you have to hold your head in your hands in embarrassment. Insurrection >>>> Nemeshit

I don't have a problem with John Logan. He's a decent screenwriter who's worked on some good to great films. While his contribution to those have varied, the guy isn't a total hack and I think he did the best with what he could.

Absolutely agree about Stuart Baird. They gave him Star Trek to direct as a thank you for saving their asses editing another film. It was clear that Paramount really didn't give a shit about the Star Trek franchise anymore by just handing it over to someone who also didn't give a shit about it. And while Stuart Baird may be a fantastic editor, he sucks as a director (see "US Marshalls" and "Executive Decision").

Not only B&B, but Spiner and Stewart had a very heavy hand in developing the story, each of whom threatening to not even do the film unless they could meddle with the script to beef up their parts. The same happened with Insuckrection where we had a case of actors egos ruining the films they star in. Remember the public shit-fit that Patrick Stewart threw when Nemesis flopped? His ego was seriously bruised by the fact that people hated the film, and he effectively washed his hands of Star Trek after that.

I don't have the unbridled hate for Nemesis that most fans do. It's not a good film, but it's far from being the absolute turd that the die hard fans say it is. Both TFF and INS were far worse films in every way possible and are completely unwatchable.

Jesus.

Bang on.

Jesus Christ.

Fighting over whether Insurrection or Nemesis were better is like deciding whether you'd like to suffer through a week of explosive diahrrea or a week of projectile vomiting.

Both films suck and are completely irredeemable.

I wouldn't. I would admit that it sucked, and move on with my life.

ESPECIALLY as the last TNG movie. What better time for Picard (and others) to look back on his (and their) career, see what he has accomplished and what he has failed at (maybe even see the flaws that led to those failures reflected in Shinzon), and offer a few words on what it has all meant to him before moving on to the next big thing?

I disagree on the exact theme, though. Echo "Tapestry" and have it be about making the most of yourself more than nature vs. nurture. Picard has overcome great obstacles to be where he is, for the Federation to be where it is. He has . . . maybe not friendships, in the way that Kirk did, but positive relationships with the other main cast. He's found interests like archaeology that tie in with his motivations. He's learned from his mistakes, grown as a result of his troubles. He is comfortable with who he is.

Craft Shinzon as a contrast to that. His working relationships exist through fear and a desire to use one another, his response to a slight is to plot revenge, his response to failure is to hit his enemies harder next time (hence: wipe out Earth) without giving any thought to improving his own personality. Maybe he has History as an interest, mainly because of times when Remans were (supposedly) great and glorious, to echo Picard further. Maybe he even pontificates smugly about Reman superiority and inflicts Season 1 memories on the audience.

Which was a terrible, stupid, blatant thing to do. It broke suspension of disbelief. But, since Picard and Data are always the de facto stars of the movies anyway , they could have left B-4 in and let Data have a few retrospective scenes of his own with B-4. Geordi can hang around and get a few lines of his own.

Riker too. Riker should have at least a line or two about looking back and how he's grown before he moves on to the next big thing. The wedding would be a natural time for this.


As for subtracting: The discussion between Shinzon and Picard worked surprisingly not-badly. Leave that in, but strengthen it, so that it serves as the emotional core of their conflict. The motorcycle escape scene was fun action, as best I can remember. It can stay. The dune buggy was less so; it needs to be heavily reworked at the very least. Really, it's probably irredeemable in its present form. Wandering through the nebula was really, really, really stupid and unnecessary. (Shouldn't there be a standing order to avoid going through nebulae and the like whenever feasible? It's a navigational hazard, it's a communications hazard, you're messing with a natural phenomenon. Just take a couple of minutes and go around the thing.) Wandering past it would have been enough incentive for Shinzon to attack -- it blocks part of their communications and he can use it as a hidey-hole in a jam. That battle also desperately needed to flow better than a Pokemon fight.


Nemesis is just frustrating. It could have been the best TNG movie. It wasn't even close.

What I hated about all the ST:TNG movies was that they tried to shoehorn "Picard/Data" into the same dynamic as "Kirk/Spock" which to my mind was NEVER going to work very well.

There were seven years of past adventures with the characters and they rarely had anything resembling the Kirk/Spock dynamic.

A second thing I hated was that they kept trying to write Data as "Pinnochio" (I know misspelled). Michael Piller specified that regarding Insurrection.

This didn't make sense in the original TNG run and made less sense in the TNG movies. When the series started, Data had been around humans for the bulk of two decades. When the movies came around about THIRTY years. It is ridiculous that he would continue to have problems understanding human customs and figures of speech after all that time.

Finally, I always hated the Star Trek movies introducing something brand new about a character or the Trek universe that comes out of nowhere.

1) The Wrath of Khan-Kirks son
2) The Final Frontier- Spocks brother
3) Abramstrek One -Spock/Uhura, destruction of Vulcan, et cetera (I know, reboot excuse)

4) Nemesis - Picard's clone, Remans.