CIA leaker Snowden: How is he different than Army leaker Manning???

OK. Early in his Administration, Obama wound up on the ropes because a disaffected emo Army PFC named Bradley Manning systematically collected a bunch of classified information and passed it on to WikiLeaks in an effort to make the US look bad. General consensus here at WF is that he is a traitorous fuck and it is unfortunate that they have decided not to shoot him.

Currently a string of scandals are unfolding on the Obama White House because a disaffected CIA agent named Edward Snowden blew the whistle on a bunch of shady and Unconstitutional things the Government was up to. I haven't heard a lot of calls for him to be strung up.

So what say you, WF? Is there any difference between the two? Is one a "good" leaker and the other a "bad" leaker? Why? Why not? Do you think Obama will send a drone into China to kill him?

Because Snowden leaked programs that theoretically violate the constitution and programs he specifically thought were wrong.

Manning just scooped up everything he could get his hands on and leaked it.

My jury is still out on Snowden until a little more info is forthcoming, but so far it appears that he leaked what he did, as Sentinel said, because he believed the US government was conducting surveillance programs that violate the Constitution.

Manning did what he did because he is gay and was pissed at the US military over Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Quite a difference.

He's not. Both are heroes. If you think that one is and the other isn't, then you'll have trouble explaining why.

Manning's releases undermined our diplomatic affairs. Snowden's revealed a threat to our Constitutional freedoms.

I certainly don't consider Manning a hero--he broke an oath and betrayed his country for no purpose other than he seems to have been unhappy--but the jury is still out on Snowden.

I don't think history will look too favorably upon on our current regime. I think both will go down as a little footnote to show that not everybody in the government was OK with how things are going.

Really, I thought my post explained it pretty simply. You just have such a burning hatred of anything related to the US military that it blinds you to the difference.

Snowden's pecs can't ripple, and his heat vision is weaker.

Well Manning is military and Snowden is civilian. Is that correct?

At any rate, while I think Snowden probably had purer motives I still think he should be punished. With something as important as this I think a person should go through channels as much as possible for as long as possible instead of just dumping material out there.

I thought Snowden was a Booz Allen contractor for NSA?

Could be. I haven't been following his story that closely. I should have put a "(?)" behind "CIA agent"

Neither of them are traitors, they are both heroes and true patriots. Snowden is only different because he fled the country and was able to spin it to his advantage. Manning didn't have a chance to spin it before getting captured. Also, Snowden's leak comes at a time when Republicans and conservatives are eager to go after Obama for anything. Manning's leak came too early in the Obama presidency.

Yeah. Obama and his administration are only shitting all over our civil liberties because he's just such a giving soul. Wants to help the Republicans out, y'know. What a guy.

Although Manning knew there was stuff in there like the US blowing up journalists...

I'm with Muad in that I'm still undecided on Snowden.

The two cases are different in terms of the information leaked. Manning leaked classified military info, broke his military oath, and possibly allowed the kind of info that could get our servicemen killed into the hands of people who want to kill them. Thus, a traitorous fuck who deserves to hang.

Snowden is a civilian who broke a contract with an employer and violated his secret government clearance - thus should be prosecuted for doing that. He has also provided China with details of what kind of surveillance capabilities we have that are probably very useful to them. That smacks of espionage, which is a pretty fucking serious crime in gov't circles.

That said, I'm no more happy to find out how thoroughly the USG violates the 4th amendment than he is, and I want the USG to stop doing that.

He ain't no hero, and he needs to be prosecuted for his crimes. He may even be a traitor. BUT, it was the bad behavior of the gov't that drove him to it.

In my opinion, there's a big difference between Manning and Snowden.

Manning revealed the contents of classified government documents,
the results of U.S. intelligence activities.

This release of information, damages on-going investigations,
and adversely affects our ability to conduct investigations in the future.
It weakens our national security, and puts the lives of real people at risk.

Snowden made two revelations that have drawn a lot of attention.

He revealed that the government has the ability to track phone calls.
The government can see who is calling who, and when.

It was already known that the government could track phone calls,
with a court order. It appears that the government has created their own court,
which has said, just go ahead.

Also, Snowden revealed that the government has access to the
servers of major internet companies.
This is allows the government bypass site registrations and passwords,
to read e-mails, and gain access to information that the general public
considered to be private.

In reality, information conveyed on the internet has never been safe and secure.
Any file that is open to the net, can be accessed by someone.
Persons who are concerned about security, can encrypt files on their own computers,
and control access to the encryption key.

So Snowden has revealed a couple of tools that the government uses
to gather information.

In my opinion, this is not a big deal.
This is equivalent to revealing the existence of surveillance cameras
and facial recognition software.

The information about government activities, that has made its way to the public, so far,
do not warrant calls for Snowden to be charged with treason.

That could change.
Snowden reportedly has files of classified information, that he could release.

Snowden has certainly violated non-disclosure agreements that he
signed before working with the government.
He should be charged with those violations.

Likewise, the government has violated the Fourth Amendment. What's more damning, they lied to us about the nature and scope of the activity they undertook which violated the Fourth Amendment. If Snowden is to be charged, every single government official who didn't reveal the same information to us should be charged with perjury for knowingly violating their oaths of office.

1.) I'd be surprised if China didn't have the exact same kind of setup running there.
2.) Even if they don't, I seriously doubt if the news came as a surprise to the Chinese, since they built the damned hardware in all likelihood.

I don't see much difference between the two. Both saw things they considered wrong, both decided to deal with this by public revelation. Of the actual reveals, I'm far more bothered by the information that Manning released. As Cobalt pointed out, we pretty much already knew about what Snowden revealed. It's something that was legislated by Congress, the information is there. People concerned about violations of the 4th amendment should sue the federal government. Personally, though, I'm not sure how the NSA's activities are much different from a cop driving down my street to catalog which porches have shady characters hanging out on them.

In the NSA's case, the cop walks into your house and copies down everything in your Rolodex.

No, but he observes who comes and goes. When I make a phone call, it involves things outside of my house, that's the difference.

And dips a PH strip into your toilet contents, skims through your porn stash, and eats a fistful of your Doritos.

No, not even remotely true. While it's definitely creepy, they are really just observing public behavior, and they aren't even connecting it to identifying information until they see a pattern. And at that point, going further requires a warrant.

BZZZZT! Wrong! I don't make private phone calls in public, and I don't check or send my email from public computers.

A warrant which they have their very own pet court issue. And if they have the capability to connect what they've got to personally identifying information at any point, then they've always got that capability.

They have to take his out of his cold dead hands...

@Muad, you do know that the data leaves your house, right, and passes through public space?

@VisionCastle, they also have the ability to enter your house and kill you at any point. Have they done so? As you libtards are so fond of pointing out, the government has a monopoly on force. The system requires a bit of social trust. You guys who can only see government as a force for evil are pretty much anti-social nuts.

Cobalt, don't hit enter when you get to the edge of the text box. This isn't a typewriter!

I thought he was writing a poem.

They'll kill you first, y'know. Anyone who'd betray his countrymen as easily as you have is just as much a liability to the ones you betrayed your countrymen to.