Send phones not bombs

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Borgs, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. Borgs

    Borgs Fresh Meat

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    http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/10/fresh-from-the-department-of-crazy-ideas-phonebomb-afghanistan/

    I've been thinking more seriously about long term desirable technological trends and which ones are viable today that will grow in popularity over time. Whether it's developing Tor to help Iranian dissidents or protect individual's privacy, I think we can agree that allowing people to bypass central controls is inherently democratic and destabilising to certain types of regime (including first world governments!).

    Why not take this idea to its logical extreme? One could argue that this is already happening. I think the reason people don't 'embrace' this is because the reaction is hard to predict. So that's why sending in a 10 year long occupation force to Iraq and Afghanistan was preferable - because you can control and predict the situation to an extent.

    Why not this other way? I like it, it's a 21st century way of saying 'sending aid, not bombs' without the problems aid has faced. Thoughts?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. evenflow

    evenflow Lofty Administrator

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    I said years ago that the way to combat such fundamentalism is to air drop iPods and iPads full of content into the region. Set up some easy sharing mechanism and watch regimes fall a few years later.

    No reality programming though, that would only harden their position.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Yep, societies that don't yet have the printing press can easily be handed the modern version. Twitter probably enabled the Egyptian revolution. And while the results so far might not be exactly what we would want, they will get there, because with each upheaval, knowledge becomes more accessible, which is to say power and freedom.
     
  4. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    People who have a lot of material goods are harder to persuade to undertake suicide missions. What we should have done when we defeated the Taliban was to set up manufacturing centers in Afghanistan. These would have built pre-fabricated housing (solar powered) and electronic devices like mesh networking routers. These could then have been used by the US government to rebuild the country (and the houses could have been imported to the US, and sold as a low-cost second home for people, or used as emergency housing after a disaster, like Katrina), not only would it helped to engender good will in the general population, but it also would have given the people meaningful skills that netted them real money, without having to resort to things like growing poppies.

    The problem is, however, we've developed a cultural mindset that helping people in such a way, either makes them dependent upon handouts, or is taking away resources from our own people. Neither of which has to be true, if the programs are properly implemented, but we don't have a political class that's actually interested in such things. All they care about is winning the dick-waving contest they're having with the opposition, and anything that gets accomplished is just a side-effect.
     
  5. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I wouldn't even worry about the phones falling into the hands of the Taliban.

    We want the Taliban to talk on cellphones. :diablo:
     
  6. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    ^ Devil laugh.
    And I'd have added an agreeing comment to 'flow if we still had those.


    Borg's OP: there's lots of potential upside.

    Otoh, be prepared for some results you might not like, 'majority rules' can cut hard the other way too.
     
  7. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Didn't you answer your own question? If the goal is for you to control Iraq and Afghanistan, then you don't want Iraqis and Afghans having the tools to do so.
     
  8. Borgs

    Borgs Fresh Meat

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    Well I like to think the goal was to install western friendly governments who would be trading partners, espouse liberal ideals and provide freedom for their citizens.

    Much of the conventional wisdom says all of this can only be done in the middle east via strong central governments because of the cultural (e.g. religious / patriarchal / nationalistic) and infrastructure (lack of freedom of movement, freedom of information, communications infrastructure) requires such a government.

    However through activities such as directly empowering the citizens to communicate outside of these contraints it puts in place a populace more open to democratic governments and freer trade agreements. Well that's the idea anyhow.
     
  9. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I'd like to think that too.
     
  10. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    If it ever comes to war with North Korea I think one of the best weapons would be care package drops on a massive scale. Include food, medical supplies and communications equipment.
     
  11. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    It's a good thing you're not in charge because that's the stupid thing to do.

    Those people for the most part have been brainwashed since birth to view America and the West at large as enemies. They are going to take the food, medical supplies, and communications equipment and use it AND still fight in a war.

    You might as well give them fucking gas and ammo while you're at it.
     
  12. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    When the NK regime eventually falls I think we'll all be surprised how quickly lots of the NK population adapts. Living in a police state for over half a century does a good job of making people quiet about their problems with the leadership.

    NK is no military threat to it's neighbours apart from the initial barrage. Confrontation needs to be avoided because in the event of war resuming they will immediately throw everything they have at Seoul. After that though the SK/Japanese/American military can easily contain them. At that point there isn't even really a need for foot soldiers to step inside the country until the leadership is taken out.