Trump bans Transgendered in military.

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Dinner, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    THAT, sir, was not - and I specifically told you then was not - surgical in any way.

    that is accomplished via medication, not - as you derisively continue to say, "mutilation" (i.e. surgery)
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  2. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    the overall rate of all surviving trans persons as reported by the major studies is about 41% - this of course does not include successful attempts in which you can only assume an even distribution of success rate and that will get you over 50%

    Other studies conclude that this rate falls, in post transition subjects, to a rate something on the order of twice that found in the general population (I'd have to check some of my links for exact numbers, but the genpop figure is well under 5%)

    So what the Pharisees do is emphasize that - "OMG a trans person is twice as likely to attempt suicide therefore treating these people with transition is EEEEVIL!!!" - and then in some other place maybe cite the 40% and leave you to assume that the 40% is the same stat (post transition people) as the former one when it is not.

    the upshot is that the rate between transitioned and transitioned drops by a factor of around 10 - but it's still elevated, researchers believe this is because of the price we pay to transition in terms of loss of family, home, career, etc
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  3. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    my perception is fine. And it says basically what others are telling you it says, that GD is basically a a reaction provoked by being trans - and that the treatment for it is transition (if it is severe enough) which is what I've been saying all along. You should read the whole thing before isolating an out of context quote to try to win an argument
  4. CoyoteUgly

    CoyoteUgly Fire Walk With Me

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +394
    So it is a mental disorder then.
  5. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    the delay actually came earlier, but he was also the one who told the House Pharisees to piss off with their idea of forbidding the medical care. I'm willing to assume he had a good practical reason for the delay announcement.
  6. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    GD? it's a condition, like depression.

    But being trans and having a GD reaction are separate phenomena.

    Again, let's say you are horribly injured and react to this by becoming depressed - the injury and the resulting depression are separate conditions.

    The great majority of the people who cite the presence of GD in the DSM say "see! Beng Trans is a mental condition" - and in this claim, they err or they lie.

    ETA - "condition" as opposed to a "disorder" because the latter implies a flaw in function
  7. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    WebMD disagrees.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  8. CoyoteUgly

    CoyoteUgly Fire Walk With Me

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +394
    What does DSM stand for?

    Which is exactly what I said further up.
  9. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,508
    Ratings:
    +82,452
    Jesus, is this still going?
    Shoot the fucker, and get some sleep.
  10. CoyoteUgly

    CoyoteUgly Fire Walk With Me

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +394
    Better women than you have tried.
  11. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    51,920
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +5,412
    CoyoteUgly lives in Little Rock.

    So he's no stranger to gunfire...
  12. CoyoteUgly

    CoyoteUgly Fire Walk With Me

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +394
    36 homicides and counting. Thankfully none in my area to my knowledge.
  13. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,996
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,821
    Right-wing tool celebrates Trump's ban, reveals self as spineless coward and implies soldiers are too - even though he tries to pull it back at the end:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...traight-men-are-scared-of-transgender-people/

    Yeah, "real men" who are freaked by whether someone may or may not have a dick in their pants, as opposed to Commies or Muslims.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Sad Sad x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  14. CoyoteUgly

    CoyoteUgly Fire Walk With Me

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +394
  15. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  16. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    42,374
    Location:
    San Diego
    Ratings:
    +56,118
    FB_IMG_1491370542377.jpg
    • Winner x 3
    • Disagree x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Sad x 1
    • TL;DR x 1
  17. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    http://militarypartners.org/navy-professors-say-trumps-transgender-ban-would-cost-960-million/

    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,626
    You know, aside from telling those people that they're worthless and somehow untrustworthy or something.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  19. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  20. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    genetics is some wild shit! It turns out all redheads in the world can be traced back to one single episode of a genetic defect.
  21. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    ya know how people say "intersex people are very rare"

    Not as rare, statistically, as natural redheads.
  22. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    I think what - 2 percent of the world is a natural redhead? I don't know the percentage of "intersex" people but I wouldn't think it would be much higher.
  23. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,996
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,821
    And virtually all of the size difference between a chihuahua and a Great Dane is down to a single letter change in the doggy DNA.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  24. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    thing is, most people with an intersex condition live their whole life and never know it. It's a wide range of variations that fall under that term.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. enlisted person

    enlisted person Black Swan

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    20,859
    Ratings:
    +3,627
    I don't think I have a problem with this. If you can't figure out if you are a man or a woman, can you truly figure out if you want to defend the country? Can we not have a little bit of control about who you are and what you are and what you want to do?
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    then again some people (many people) approach joining the military as just a well paying, dependable, safe job that has nothing to do with who they are or what they believe in. If you take the military too seriously it can drive you crazy!
  27. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,996
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,821
    You managed OK and you were off your fucking face half the goddamn time.
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,142
    Ratings:
    +37,426
    look, people do not choose treatment for their condition which, in the current culture, puts one at risk of quite literally losing everything else in their life that is important to them because they "haven't figured out" the situation.

    No one you will ever me has so deeply and thoroughly "figured out" themselves as a transitioned trans person. (on average, there's a fringe exception to any deceleration)
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  29. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    37,536
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +19,361
    I doubt that. It is more than likely a selective process for naturally occuring genetic variation with in the population of canines as a whole and it is certainly more than one gene much less one change to the base DNA code.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  30. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,996
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,821
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/researchers-identify-gene-involved-dog-size

    You'll note I said "virtually all" - there's a spectrum of course as there is in humans but this one gene variant contributes about 90% of the phenotypic effect and that is down to about 20 SNPs, with a single one of those again having a major effect.

    FYI I work in genomics.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1