North Carolina Congressional Map Ruled Unconstitutionally Gerrymandered

and black people vote Republican how often again? Whites can go either way, but last time I checked blacks run about a 90+ percent Democrat every...fucking...election.

You checked? Where?

Don't be stupid garamet. You're seriously going to insist on evidence for what has been a well known political fact for literally DECADES??

Gee, I wonder if Republicans might have done anything to bring about this situation.

The latest 538 episode is the California degerrymandering effort (for which Arnie should get real praise) but the biggest problem is where people live. They really do self segregate which makes degerrymandering difficult especially if you try to degerrymander while providing minority majority districts as the voting rights act requires.

It has helped, we now have 60-40 districts instead of 80-20 districts but it makes it impossible to have truly competitive districts if you legally must draw districts on racial lines. One episodes was about Arizona and their attempts to end gerrymandering yet still comply with the unjust racist racial mandates of the voting rights act. It changed a grand total of one out of seven state congressional districts into being competitive. Geography of where people live along with the legal requirement for minority majority districts, which results in packing, makes it extremely hard to ungerrymander. Of course, even making a single district more competitive caused Republicans to cry endless crocodile tears about the supposed unfairness of competitive elections.

I agree with that.

That has less than nothing to do with what @Dayton3 was talking about.

Among the gullible who believe every rumor their GOP masters and the rednecks down at the feed store tell them? Definitely. If it's true, proof should be easy enough to come by.

It has been a fact (African Americans overwhelmingly voting for the Democratic candidate) since I started following national elections in 1980. Do you deny it is true?

Then, to reiterate: it should be easy enough even for a lazy ass like you to prove.

No garamet. You want proof find it yourself. Me finding it won't make you think any more of me and me failing to do so can't make you think any less.

I'll take "'Muh daddy and the rednecks down at the feed store always said' for $500, Alex."

That Republicans in North Carolina deliberately shut down or drastically reduced the hours of all DMVs in majority black areas pretty much show the law does have racist intent.

That they first asked how best to reduce black turn out and then deliberately targeted black voters with near surgical precision is not an opinion. It is a legal finding of fact.

the same place that I checked to see if the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Do away with districts entirely and elect representatives based on party proportion.

That would require a constitutional amendment. Something that neither party is likely to wish to do. Republicans because they benefit now. Democrats because they know they'll benefit in the future.

Maybe they're trying to reduce the instances of DWB (Driving While Black)

Really? Which part of the Constitution mandates Congressional districts, or even mentions them?

Look it up.

I see your point but I would wager there would be serious 14th amendment concerns if any attempt was made to do away with Congressional districts.

That arcane knowledge allows you to step into the voting booth and read people's ballots? Fascinating.

Apparently it also enables you to make inane posts at Wordforge.

So the sunrise tells you who voted for whom as well? You and oldfella live in an extraordinary microcosm. Now go look up "arcane," because it does not mean what you think it means.

For the casual reader, there is no mention of Congressional districts in the Constitution.

And as for Dayton's far-fetched claim about the 14th Amendment, which I assume refers to the Equal Protection clause, my method of choosing Reps is actually better in that regard. Every vote would count far more in the than a first-past-the-post system we use now.

Districts should be drawn without regard to anything but headcount of legal American citizens, permanent residents, or other legal green-card residents.

That means not by political affiliations, race, sex, or anything. And illegals should definitely not be counted. You want illegals in your state? Fine but you shouldn't be rewarded for it with more seats in the House.

Dinner is right however that the Voting Rights Act can demand the creation of majority-minority districts. I've never understood why Democrats support majority-minority districts anyway since it leads directly to packing where the Republicans pack as many minorities into a single district in order to satisfy the Democrats. In essence the Democrats are making it easier for Republicans to win in other districts around the minority district.

I don't buy the argument that minorities can't win unless they have a majority in a district. Minorities can win but minorities who do run are going to have to stop ignoring the non-minorities. In other words they are going to have to moderate and learn to represent everyone in order to win.

And the non-minorities who run for office are also going to have to stop ignoring minorities and have to moderate and learn to represent everyone in order to win.

Yes the first few years will be bumpy but eventually things will work out.

Article I, section 2, paragraph 3:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolinafive, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

Article I, section 3, paragraph 1:
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, or six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

Article I, section 4, paragraph 1:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

Amendment 14, pargraph 2:
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-oneyears of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Amendment 15:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment 17, paragraph 1:
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

Amendment 19:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Amendment 26:
The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.​

The only bits in there that could be construed to cover districts are the parts I bolded. It does however lay out the basis for the census, upon which all of this is based. Section 4, paragraph 1 does give the state legislatures the ability to decide how they want to elect their congresscritters. And as I've said before, I believe the 17th Amendment was a major mistake and should be repealed.

I think it was President Grant who said he would never trust anyone who knew only one way to spell a word.

I wouldn't trust anyone who thought a word only had one meaning.

Garamet you are right! Blacks statistically vote Republican just as often as they vote Democrat - despite all the surveys, polls, statistics, testimonies, data, etc. that would have us believe otherwise. I'm sure the black vote is what got Trump elected, and of course the black vote had very little to do with Obama getting elected.

I like the direction you're headed but there are a couple of systems that I think would work a little better. There's Single Transferable vote where you have multiple seats per district. Candidates with votes over the threshold needed to win have the excess votes transferred to the voters' second choice. It's still somewhat susceptible to gerrymandering, but not as much as our current system. It's also kinda hard to explain, so I dobut we'll ever implement it. [Video on STV]

The other is Mixed Member Proportional. You vote for someone to represent your district as well as the party that you want in charge. After members are seated from the districts, additional seats are allocated based on the percentage of the party vote so that the makeup of the legislature approximates the party vote. [MMP video]

The tragedy is that you think "arcane" and "inane" have the same meaning.

So when will you show us all the surveys, polls, statistics, testimonies, data, etc.?

It is intellectually dishonest (also trolling) to ask for proof of something you know to be true.