America's Second Civil War

the comments (and a few other sources) have said that it's just water. there are a couple of vids where they use traffic cones as part of the process before drowning the canisters with water bottles-I guess to contain the smoke?

then there was this game from 2005. Other than being an administration late, it really seems to presage certain events.
Hell, even the fictious populist PotUS has the same first two initials...
It might be time for some of the northern states to consider joining Canada...

OK, watched the video, and there is no way that is liquid nitrogen. You might be able to contain and stop the reaction with a container of water like that, but if you had that little liquid nitrogen it would have changed to gas really quickly and the pressure inside of a sealed container would have been an explosive hazard. That was certainly not liquid nitrogen and whoever that twitter user is needs to be shot.

Only to burn them.

I read the Koran when I was in Iraq. It was pretty horribly written, its organization was worse, and it was especially hate filled and violent by the end.

In fairness much the same could be said about most religious texts.

Fucking bring it.

Question: If you shave off all your hair, are you still a ginger, blond, brunet, etc...?

Also, post moar

It was another level.

I’ve read Ready Player One, it’s the first book I wanted to actually burn. But mostly to keep others from suffering as I had.

I doubt that but ok

I mostly agree with this but I do see the possibility of some far leftist or far rightist group carrying out a criminal campaign which is very poorly ideologically motivated. Kind of like the Red Brigades or the Red Army Faction terrorism/crime campaigns. We already know Antifa is the ideological descendant of those groups which are based upon and inspired by them.

What I don’t see is wide spread acceptance of their propaganda justifications so they will eventually become discredited due to their violence and criminality and law enforcement will close in on them and rightly so.

Of course I would be very pleased if there was a war in the United States. A hard war. With at least 2 million dead. Tragic for their families of course, but I believe it would end the obsession that certain groups have about their "rights" and restore traditional values.

It could go either way in such an event, depending on a lot of factors, not least of which would include political and media representation and responses.

The FBI agrees as they issued a report detailing Antifa and other radical leftist organizations are increasingly arming themselves and their members/allies have taken part in five different attacks on American law enforcement facilities mostly motivated by lies and propaganda being spewed by extreme left Democratic politicians. We even had two extreme left idiots in congress fund raising for these violent groups because they stupidly think they can benefit by promoting hatred and violence.

I love you NotDayton, but if you bring any more Blue Room stuff into here both your accounts will get their Blue Room access removed.

All true yet nowhere near the scale of right wing violence, as has been evidenced with the figures many times.

couldn't find anything right away about antifa being listed as a terror group by the FBI other than a congress critter asking for them to be categorized. Hell, poking around the FBI's website, and there's no mention of this report you claim.

I did, however, find an article about a law abiding patriot who has suffered for them existing... (looks liek Oregon has enacted a bit of responsible legislation around the "right" to own guns, too)

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Former Marine said he’d ‘slaughter’ antifa. The FBI, using Oregon’s new red flag law, took his guns away


Shane Kohfield stood outside the home of Portland’s mayor in July wearing body armor and a “Make America Great Again” baseball cap, a large knife strapped to one shoulder and a copy of his concealed weapons permit displayed on the other.

Using a loudspeaker, he warned the right-wing activists who turned out to condemn the city’s handling of recent violent demonstrations that they needed to protect themselves against their anti-fascist, or antifa, rivals.

“If antifa gets to the point where they start killing us, I’m going to kill them next,” Kohfield, 32, said. “I’d slaughter them and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa.”

That threat pushed the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task to take a series of extraordinary steps against Kohfield, including temporary seizure of a cache of his firearms under Oregon’s new “red flag” law aimed at preventing gun violence, The Oregonian/OregonLive has learned.


Shots Not Fired: A new Oregon law takes guns from people who may do harm

In 2017, the Oregon Legislature narrowly passed a law giving judges discretion to pry guns from people not convicted of a crime who show signs they might shoot themselves or someone else.

The task force also had the ex-Marine committed to a veterans’ hospital in Portland. He spent the next 20 days there.

The moves came as city officials and law enforcement prepared for potentially violent clashes Aug. 17 during a right-wing rally and counterprotests planned in downtown Portland that had become inflamed with incendiary political rhetoric nationwide. Police worried that they would end in catastrophe.

Though Kohfield wasn’t accused or charged with any crimes, police took no chances and prevented him from attending the rally as he repeatedly had promised to do on social media after his confrontation at Mayor Ted Wheeler’s house.

The episode shows that federal law enforcement may be beginning to take a more aggressive tack toward potential political threats, said Michael German, a retired FBI agent and fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School.

“Clearly, this latest incident shows how effective proactive policing can be in reducing the chance of violence,” said German, who has monitored political street clashes in Portland and other parts of the country over the last few years.

“It also makes you wonder if they’d been proactive from beginning whether all of this would have grown into the menace it has become.”


Will Proud Boys, antifa showdown mark a tipping point for Portland?

“We’ve been sitting on a powder keg and everything is kind of coming to a head.”

The FBI declined to provide additional details about the case or answer questions submitted by The Oregonian/OregonLive.

“The Portland JTTF’s role is to assess, address, and mitigate any given threat against the people of Oregon appropriately,” Beth Anne Steele, a spokeswoman for the bureau’s Portland office said in an email Friday.

“Sometimes that mitigation takes the form of criminal prosecution, and sometimes it involves a holistic response, including consultation with threat assessment teams or others to divert a person before a significant violent crime occurs.”

***

Kohfield, who spoke with The Oregonian/OregonLive, suffers from bipolar disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder, medical records show.

He returned home Tuesday from the VA hospital and maintains he never planned to hurt or maim other people. But he understands why he alarmed police.

“I looked unhinged. I looked dangerous and have the training to be dangerous,” said Kohfield, who lives with his father in Canby and receives disability payments for physical and psychological injuries he sustained during two tours of duty in Iraq.

By leveling vicious warnings, Kohfield said, he hoped to deter others from causing physical harm.

“I figured that the key to de-escalating the situation was to not be the most violent person in the room,” he said. “It was to be the scariest person in the room.”

A supporter of President Donald Trump, Kohfield said he isn’t affiliated with Patriot Prayer, the Proud Boys or other right-wing groups that have organized marches and demonstration throughout Portland over the last 2 ½ years, some that have devolved into bloody brawls and riots.

He brought an American flag to protest fascism in Portland. Then antifa attacked him

"I remember thinking there was a very good chance that I could be beaten to death," Paul Welch, who came to demonstrate against the right-wing group Patriot Prayer on Aug.4, told The Oregonian/OregonLive.

His protest activity, he said, has been limited to the event outside the mayor’s house and a right-wing rally last fall in downtown Portland, both organized by local conservative activist Haley Adams.

“I was watching on the news that city of Portland did nothing to protect the people against antifa,” Kohfield said. “I figured I’d show up to protect these people.”

***

By the time he popped up at the mayor’s house, Kohfield was already on the FBI’s radar.

He had landed there in March after he sent a letter to Texas Rep. Dan Crenshaw, a first-term Republican congressman and former Navy Seal, according court documents filed in Clackamas County.

The five-page letter, included in the court filings, accused Portland’s mayor and police of permitting anti-fascist activists to commit “savage attacks” against conservatives at protests, including the November rally where Kohfield said he was assaulted by masked demonstrators.

Patriot Prayer, antifa to face off in Portland one month after brutal riot

"This weekend is starting to look like the biggest rally of the year that the far-right will hold. It could be combustible."

Kohfield told Crenshaw that Congress needed to take immediate steps to declare antifa a terrorist organization. Otherwise, he and other veterans would have no choice but to begin systematically killing antifa members “until we have achieved genocide.”

Kohfield included a detailed outline of how he would carry out the mission, which he argued would be legally justified if the federal government refused to act.

The U.S. Capitol Police shared the letter with the FBI’s Portland office, which assigned the case to a Clackamas County sheriff’s deputy serving on the area’s Joint Terrorism Task Force, court records show.

Deputy Jeremy Stinson interviewed Kohfield and his father at their home in April, according to the court documents.

Stinson learned Kohfield had served in the Marines and kept guns in the house. Kohfield told the deputy he would defend himself the next time members of antifa attacked him.

***

Nearly four months after the visit, the deputy was notified that Portland police had opened a non-criminal inquiry known as a threat investigation in response to the remarks Kohfield made July 20 at the mayor’s house.

“I can’t say that he won’t kill someone,” Kohfield’s father told Portland police during their investigation, according to court records.

He also told police that his son was taking medication for bipolar disorder, drinking heavily and had become increasingly agitated.

“(Kohfield’s father) provided that Shane was really upset by Portland’s ‘liberal government’ and the state of the federal government,” the court documents read.

Stinson included all these details in a July 25 affidavit seeking an “extreme risk protection order” against Kohfield, which a judge approved the same day.

Such protection orders, introduced in Oregon in 2018, allow authorities to pry guns from people not convicted of a crime who show signs they might shoot themselves or someone else.

Each protection order stands for a year but can be extended indefinitely. Those who have their guns taken away can appeal the decision.

Judges statewide received 122 extreme risk protection order petitions through July 2019 and granted 98 of them, said Phil Lemman, Oregon’s acting deputy state court administrator. Kohfield’s is only the sixth approved in Clackamas County, records show.

According to court documents and Kohfield, law enforcement officers served him with the order on Aug. 7 while he was visiting family in central Oregon.

***

It’s not clear why law enforcement waited nearly two weeks to serve the order, but they did so only days after a pair of deadly mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, on Aug. 3 and Dayton, Ohio, the following day.

Kohfield, who was unarmed, said at least a dozen officers stopped him while he was leaving a relative’s home outside Prineville.

Officers said they planned to take Kohfield to the VA hospital in Portland. He said they then served him with the protection order.

“I was told that I didn’t have a choice,” he said. “The cops were great. They were respectful and compassionate.”

Kohfield said he was placed under psychiatric observation for five days. He said that he then volunteered to remain at the VA hospital for another two weeks.

According to Lemman, the state court administrator, Kohfield surrendered an AR-15, a pistol, a rifle and a shotgun.

The ex-Marine said he is done with attending protests or political demonstrations in Portland.

“I have done everything I can possibly do to keep both sides from killing each other,” he said. “As long as they keep duking it out like this, it will achieve nothing.”

***********

"if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis".

because unlike Antifa, Proud Boys actually are on a watch list for extremist organizations...

the thing that stands out most for me from the demos I've been at here is that while antifa and associated acts are a range of uni students, trade unions, old hippies, etc., and all local residents.
the PB/3%/Nouns of Odin, on the other hand, are driving in from up to and over an hour away to harass various targets.

so I've gotta ask, who is really initiating the confrontation/response situations here?

What strikes me there is how a seemingly reasonable set of premises led to such a poor and dangerous course of actions. This guy seems, on face value, to actually see himself as acting in response to violence, to be the person (to use his words) "deescalating" the situation and "protecting local residents". I wonder how many of our various extremists share a similar world view, with their actions being a rational response to a threat rather than a threat in and of itself.

You see that on both sides. Antifa declares any words they dislike to be violence and then that supposedly justifies them attacking anyone and everyone they disagree with. It seems to be a common trait among the extremists.

Indeed, which is an interesting observation about the disconnect in public and self perception.

Having actually been in the "antifa" crowds, I have to disagree with Dinner's strawman/gaslight gross generalization combo. I mean, those "any words they don't like" tend to be those supporting concentration camps, mass deportations, and anti-equity legislation. As for who attacks whom first at these things, I'll again refer to who drove in from where to bully the other side's neighbours?

I cook a mean burger on a fire created by bibles. You can taste the jesus when you use the right fuel.

I think a lot depends on how 2020 plays out.

Not just who wins or loses, but more importantly how it goes down. IF Trump wins and it comes out that here were provable voter irregularities that caused it then I think you will see some of the productive states start to get real about independence. It won’t be quick and will require more than just one incident but that would start the ball rolling.

I think guns and roses said it best.

I tend to avoid most public demonstrations these days in fairness but it has to be said that regardless of the cause they aren't notable for being the forum for nuanced, complex or balanced viewpoints. Nor do they encourage alternate viewpoints, that much goes without saying really.

To my mind, though, once violence starts all hope of productive consequences goes out of the window. All people will see is the fighting, not the causes being fought for and the labels protesters attach to themselves become tainted by association. I'm not saying there's an equivalence here (there isn't), but that to my mind there's little point in being there at all if what you are turning up for is a pitched battle.

I was at the prorogue protests which were were surprisingly peaceful though, which was nice.

So when we do split we will have to rename the red states with things everyone can understand. So we have north, south, east, and west dumbfuckistan. Then we have new and old dumbfuckistan. I have six names, anyone else?