America's Second Civil War

Though I think @Paladin lives in a fantasy world if he thinks there is enough pro-2nd support to amend the constitution, I also think any legislation that gets passed is going to get the boot from the Trump supreme court. That is just going to get worse if RBG has to go before the next swearing in. Because we all know that if the republicans have an hour to nominate and approve another trump supreme court pick they will rush it through.

Yes in fact. I noted down the temperature in Norphlet for two straight weeks one September and found no noticeable warming trend.

If anything it was becoming cooler. I tried to contact various scientific bodies with my stunning revelation but received no response. Which of course goes to show that there is a massive conspiracy at work.

You know the bit where I said "but leave the existing legal ones out there"? - spot261

if I understand this correctly you are saying to stop making or selling more guns & ammo, but there will still be weapons floating around. Many millions of weapons, which means there will still be many more weapons than there will be violent people (crazy, criminals, etc) willing to use them. So it might make it more difficult for a crazy person to get a gun so that's good.
However violent criminals (who are more than willing to break the law) will then steal "the existing legal ones out there" or just pay more for guns they purchase from other criminals. This is pretty much how they get them now. Here are some examples of how criminals can get guns:

1) burglary
2) well planned home invasions. Everybody has to sleep sometime, so a group of armed thieves wearing body armor can battering ram down your door and overtake you within seconds, thus acquiring the weapons you have that you think you need for self defense.
3) fake 911 call to ambush cops, killing them and taking their guns
4) buy them from criminals smuggling in guns & ammo

you get the idea! And as the gun supply dwindles expect even more of these type of crimes to increase, and the level of violence used to carry out these crimes (if applicable) to increase.
But hey, in a couple of decades it will work itself out, so it's all good! The ratio of "good guys with guns" to "bad guys with guns" will drop, no doubt about it.

Not so sure that's the case. As illegal guns become scarcer due to seizures there'll be increased demand, sure but

1) burglary, any evidence in an immediate spike in burglaries here or anywhere else after disarmaments? I'm not sure but not having a gun in the house would doubtless reduce the risk if these things are by necessity targeted
2) again, all the more reason not to have a gun in the house if all it does is increase the danger to you and your family
3) possibly, but I don't imagine it would take long for the cops to start adapting their tactics and make mincemeat of any gangs doing this - especially as those gangs are already starved of weaponry hence needing to resort to this
4) the net flow of smuggling in terms of guns is out of the US, not in.

As ever the question about these doomsday scenarios becomes "why has it not happened anywhere else?" and simply saying "because we're America" isn't a satisfactory response.

to be fair, the biggest source of guns for criminals around here is those smuggled in from the US for what's essentially dispersal/disposal from the crimes they may be attached to there. Of course, most of those were at one point legitimately acquired.

there's no historical mention of a spike in burglaries taking firearms here, despite the last century of increasingly greater limits on what is available or allowable to own.

home invasions aren't all that common without mitigating circumstances liek a few thousand dollars worth of cocaine debts.

I don't think I've ever heard of cops being ambushed for weapons before outside of a movie involving Batman.

The ship isn't sinking, it's just got a pool in the engine room :/

Best post of the day.

I think what escapes them is that America doesn't have a gun problem, but rather is the gun problem.

as Robin Williams said, "Canada: a nice apartment above a meth lab".

Yes, there are more justices on the Supreme Court that are favorable to the 2nd Amendment, the Heller ruling was made, Congress has a much larger pro-RKBA contingent, and the AR-15 and its clones have become far and away the best-selling guns in America.

A ban isn't impossible (though I think confiscation is a fantasy) but it could lose in the Supreme Court and it would carry a heavy political toll.

you assume a black market won't spring up. The fast and furious flow of guns over the border will reverse direction the instant a ban happens. You could clamp down tight on the borders to stop it. Then you just have to deal with garage gunsmiths. Of which there are plenty. Gonna ban lathes? Metal working tools? Gonna have a secret network of police always watching people?

No, I imagine exactly such a network would spring up, but it doesn't follow that it'll be on the same industrial scale the flow of smuggling can only reverse to a certain extent given the reasons it was outward bound in the first place.

I can't help but reiterate this enough, this experiment has been tried more than once under real world conditions and none of these doomsday scenarios have come to pass. What does happen is that murder rates come down (including those murders committed without actually using a gun).

Second best post of the day, what have you been smoking?

What makes you think the results in the U.S. would be the same as in other countries?

Lacking any reason to suspect otherwise it's generally best practise to work on the basis that an experiment which has withstood the test of replicability will continue to do so until either:

a) it doesn't

or

b) a variable changes which might feasibly alter the result.

I don't see that your borders , for instance, should be any more of an issue than they are across Europe, less in fact given they are more tightly controlled, and at base level Americans are no different from any other human beings.

What is different is that you have a culture very much based around guns and the 2A but cultures change and those of us on this side of the pond tend to take the longer view with regard to things like constitutions. We live in a world where the transience of such things is not only evident but shapes the societies many of us live in.

What is the bedrock of any society at any given time will inevitably be the stuff of history lessons eventually. The Second may be seen as inviolable now but give it another century or two and I doubt very much people will still be having this conversation.

I mentioned this earlier in another thread and it's shown its' relevance again here. Theoretically all males in England are supposed to maintain their competence with a longbow, a law which has been in place pretty much since Hastings (ish), precisely because the longbow carried such a tactical advantage over shorter ranged weapons and took significant training to master. It allowed the ready muster of a skilled militia and was very much a practical measure at the time. Longbows were the equivalent of muskets (arguably, in fact, more effective but requiring far more practise) and thus the law was set up such that there was a culture which normalised them with good reason. They were far more integral to our culture than guns are to yours now and Robin Hood was very much our Billy the Kid or Jesse James.

Those laws were never revoked, they just got increasingly ignored over the centuries as gunpowder and (more importantly) professional armies became prevalent.

They became anachronisms in a society where they were no longer relevant and largely forgotten and whilst you can still find the odd aficionado the idea of them being a day to day item would be for the majority laughable, because we've moved on.

The US hasn't been around that long, the Constitution and the 2A haven't been around that long and at the moment the NRA still has its' dirty claws deep in politics, but even in the past few years we've seen that grip become shaky as more people are questioning the necessity and wisdom of an armed populace. It may not happen overnight, or even in a few years, but I've little doubt that if the US survives over the long term it will look very different indeed.

I have a copy. I just had to use a stamp on it.

I love seeing these insights, it's like the Enterprise vs Star Destroyer debate except the participants think theirs is real.

3 and 4 are "I don't imagine it would take long for the cops to start adapting their tactics and make mincemeat of any gangs doing this" cops don't "make mincemeat" of gangs! cops already know who the known gang members are, but the constitution limits what the cops and the courts can do. The cops can have great tactics but as soon as they engage with these tactics the left will shit bricks and call them racist. Remember this is the US we are talking about. There is a generational hatred of cops among gang members and this will never change, and gangs will always have guns.

As for smuggling did you even read what you wrote? The smuggling is going out of the US right now because we have plenty of guns and anyone can get a gun, so why would we have to smuggle them in? If that dynamic flips 180 degrees then the smuggling will be incoming.

3) The situation would be very different if gangs were effectively waging war on the police, quite obviously
4) There are two sides to that equation, the reason guns are currently smuggled out of the country is that others don't have plenty of them. The US system isn't just impacting the US, it's making you fucking awful neighbours who fuel the crime elsewhere.

I refer you to @Spaceturkey comment: the US doesn't have a gun problem, the US is the gun problem.

Again, the point stands that all of these doomsday scenarios you keep insisting would happen because "common sense" have simply failed to materialise in practise.

I haven't fired my shotgun in over a year. And while its a bit of a family heirloom, if the government wants to come around and pay me a couple of hundred dollars for it I'm fine with that. I've been wanting to upgrade my computer anyway.

yeah... because Canada is just filled with underground gunsmiths.

Here's a bit to think about... any criminal around here that can afford a black market pistol (over $1000, generally speaking) isn't going to be involved in street/property crime. He'll be carrying it to drug deals, and maybe when selling at clubs... but the meth head that might break into your house (when you aren't there, because breaking into houses with people in them is stupid)? He's not likely to be packing, if for no other reason than getting busted in the act would tack on an extra few years to a 6 month sentence if he's caught carrying.

Add to all this that there's a paper trail and permit involved in simply buying ammo... it's pretty hard for criminals that nice folks like yourself may encounter to get guns here.

Spaceturkey has a point: nobody gives a shit about inner city drug gangs killing each other on a regular basis. That's why you'll never see widespread public "outrage" over constant shootings in Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Memphis, etc. Sorry for the law abiding people that live in these neighborhoods, but until large amounts of whites are shot we don't have a crisis.
It's much like opioids - inner city overdose? Dime-a-dozen. Suburban soccer mom overdose? Somebody needs to do something! Am I wrong?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...w-abiding-citizens-risk-opinion-1461124?amp=1

An excellent opinion piece in Newsweek by Andy Ngo about Antifa’s lies, violence, and double talk. Anyone who supports these criminals is completely delusional at best and more likely is just a criminal himself.

Anyone who takes Andy Ngo seriously is either incredibly gullible or engaged in confirmation bias.

Whoever at Newsweek approved publishing him should be shipped off to the mail room.

Seems Trump feels he can avoid impeachment using the threat of civil war...

We call that grasping at straws. Now we know why he is so afraid of a straw ban.

Trump cannot even keep control of faux news, how the hell is he going to command a civil war? The right going to war is an empty threat and they have tried it way too many times for people to believe it. We have seen unite the right rallies. They don't do shit. They are lightweight. If it came to actual violence there would be even more of them staying home to treat their bone spurs. The only civil war the right is going to do is pop in their avengers civil war dvd into the player.

We saw the covington boy and he could not even swing on an old indian with a drum, nor did they even threaten a couple of black boys shouting insults at them. They are a fucking joke. It is @Dayton Kitchens , @Marso , @Tuttle , and @Zombie . Could imagine that squad of losers getting together for war? They are afraid of friggen bronies. What are they going to do? Whine at us? bitch us to death? Hope that we all drop dead from laughter so they can claim victory?

These are the people who couldn't handle milkshakes being thrown at them.

Here are Dicky’s hero’s harassing an elderly Canadian woman using a wheeled walker because she can barely stand.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...otesters-harass-elderly-lady-with-walker/amp/

So brave... Such retards.

Worth watching.

You're letting Tim Pool speak for you? Shit, have some standards.

For those who don't know, take a look at his video list and tell me what you see:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Timcasts/videos

He's a misogynist, red piller who likes to talk about Seth Rich, and the libs getting owned.

Trump Says If There Is Another Civil War He Will Get a New Note from Podiatrist