Hundreds of young trans people returning to original sex.

There are no stuides. There are TERF/Fundie lies packaged to have the appearance of credibility so that they may be spread freely by idiotic bigots such as yourself and Diner.

I've no patience for your dancing clown routine on this subject.

TERF lies (TERFS funded and supported by American Evangelical bigots, by the way)

See my previous posts above for actual data to the contrary.

Get em Nova

It doesn't.

Mental health professionals do not "suggest surgery" but the assist the patient in finding the most effective course of treatment for their personal situation, which often doesn't include medical transition but the only time medical transition EVER happens without extensive psycghiatric consultation is when, because this country has such a pathetically inadequate health care system, the trans person cannot afford it and is forced to choose between an informed consent model, misery, or suicide.

Maybe if you libertarian conservative types were not so obsessed with shoveling all our wealth to the billionaires at the expense of human suffering, mental health care would be more widely available.

If you get literally ANY "information" from Diner, you'll never actually have any.

Good fucking god man - nobody WANTS a trans child (or indeed a trans person anywhere in their life!)

You you have ANY clue how much grief a parent has to live with if and when they choose to support their child's gender identity?

NOBODY VOLUNTEERS FOR THAT KIND OF BULLSHIT! NO ONE IS EAGER TO BE A SOCIAL PARIAH TO PROVE THEY ARE "WOKE"!


Good fucking God the capacity for human being to be god-damned idiots never fails to impress me.

Also?

Nobody cares what a known troll who freely changes his persona according to what he thinks will be most provocative - who literally doesn't actually stand for anything (on this site) except provoking outrage thinks either.

You're a pathetic exmaple of a troll, even as if being a troll is a thing any rational person would aspire to - to set the lowest possible goal for your online personality and fail to reach it every time.

It is worse than that, he did cite his source.

It should be noted his source is seeking to start a non-profit charity based on her claims of large numbers of people who want to detransition. That alone shows a huge bias in her reporting especially considering the later facts. I am sure the donations will all go to the people who exist in her delusions.

Let us go further.

The article which cites absolutely no scientific data whatsoever boldly admits it is full of shit when it makes it's claims, and even claims we have no numbers to show how many people are dissatisfied despite tons of research by real scientists which have come to show that a high percentage of people are happy with their transition and the unhappy people are minimal. This is why the science world has concluded SRS is beneficial to trans people. But let me quote the article:

When the article claims there are no numbers when a simple google search will yield tons of actual studies and reports from people actually doing this shit, then the article is a lie. The article went so far as to quote a rise in numbers of transitioning people, but could not put forth a number of detransitioning people?

Even the one person they interviewed says his problem stemmed more from body issues which he was working through before he decided on any physical alterations.

So @Dinner 's article is a complete misrepresentation of reality focussed oncharlie's bullshit and is probably made to get donations to that charity so she can make a buck.

Just based on that, alone and to further drive your point home- statistically, if numbers are higher for transitions, there WILL be a higher number of folks that look to detransition later on down the road. It's not an epidemic, it's simple math. How dare they be normal humans seeking their own happiness.

The real thing to look at would be the ratio rather than the number. The article does not look at that, nor does it recognize that as society becomes more open and transitioning becomes more accepted, of course more people will explore their happiness rather than hiding for the sake of bigots. That is a good thing that people are not making themselves unhappy for the sake of @Dinner and his bigot friends, but the article paints it as a problem that just sprung up for no reason. That is a huge dishonest bias against those who feel freedom.

next thing the article is going to tell us that racial poverty increased when we outlawed slavery. Look at what we did to those poor slaves by taking away their guaranteed life on plantations? IIRC Dinner, or one of the other racists here, has suggested slavery was beneficial to black people.

Who knew a DST could go five pages?

Especially without a @Dayton Kitchens autism praxis score meltdown.

The better question is why anyone would want to STILL associate with such an organization after all that.

If it were anything else, people would scream to High Heaven (pardon the expression) about being abusive enablers, like ppl did with Mama June. But it involves the Sky Fairy so it's different, somehow.

Just so you know, professionals do not suggest surgery. You are forced to get permission from a professional gatekeeper to get surgery in america. You cannot just walk into a surgeon and ask for the procedure. You can go outside of the country to places that do not require the opinion of some jerkoff who read a book, but if you want surgery in america you have to go to the shrink. Then you have to jump through their hoops to have them judge something you knew since you were born so you can get their approval.

No one in their right mind would subject themselves to the judgement of a cisgendered fuckwit to be themselves if it was not forced.

You're going to want to walk this back, @Dinner.

This is the single best post thus far in my view in terms of a rational breakdown of the situation.

There will always be some small portion of people who make any decision in life and then reverse it where possible. Be it going vegan, moving out of home, making a career choice, the point remains.

The greater the sample making that initial choice the greater the subset who later choose to reverse it, purely as a matter of the numbers involved, and that will happen even if the relative scales remain unaffected.

About a year ago I had a trans patient who was considering the full procedure to male. Far from being "encouraged into it" he had to face a lot of obstacles to the idea from risk averse management (and social workers), lack of appropriate training and a scarcity of appropriate services.

Just with regard to "aquatic children", I'm assuming one of his typos and read it as "autistic".

umm...."traditional roles" when mom & dad are behind closed doors for sexy time? Or "traditional roles" as in mom works and dad stays home? Not quite following here.

Gender roles and gender assignments. A non-binary person doesn’t adhere to gender roles. Someone perceived as male might prefer to wear makeup, or a dress. Someone perceived as female might not shave. The idea being that there are no hard lines in how someone chooses to present themselves.

There’s much more to it, especially for the non-binary people themselves, but the basic idea is that kids grow up unrestrained when it comes to personal expression. Little “Timmy” is not chastised for playing with Barbie, and such.

This is the other thing I was going to point out.

Dinner and all opposing arguments seem to think this is some willy nilly "I'm gonna go get a tattoo" spontaneous process. Those even just going through the hormone therapy have to go through a whole psychiatric evaluation to ensure that this person is of sound mind to make such a decision as to transition their gender.

This. Unless you're seeing Dr. Nick Riviera, there is no Harvard Upstairs Medical College, or hormones and surgery for only $129.95. The process is long and arduous for a reason.

there is also the strange idea that this is being forced on people. The person who is trans is opposed at almost every single turn. If there was someone forcing a sex change on a unwilling child there would be no real way to do it. The schools have counselors and teachers who try to discourage that and would report the parent for abuse. When the parent brought their child to a shrink or doctor to get HRT, therapy, or surgery they would speak to the child and the parent would be reported for abuse.

This is not something anyone is forced into. Woke parents do not force their children to do this. The children tell the parents who they are because gender identity is known at a very young age. Then the parents help the child to discover themselves as they are happiest. The article makes it seem like this charlie person is the victim of something. She made a mistake with herself and no one forced her down that road. She told people she was male. She said she felt that way. She explored that for ten +years according to the article. Maybe there is something else going on.

You are absolutely right this does not happen overnight, especially when kids begin the process when they first express their identity. Long before any permanent physical change is made those kids are already living as their gender. They are free to switch back, complain, and express themselves as they wish. It might happen a little quicker later in life, but this process takes years, and there are many turnback points. You live as your gender for a long period of time. The changes to your body are slow and do not happen overnight. Even the surgery is scheduled and discussed with multiple people. Today trans people go online and hear directly from other people undergoing the same thing and have so many sources of information and support. Supporting a person when they chose their path to SRS does not equal forcing them to make that decision despite what @Dinner and his stupid article seem to imply.

Also, if a person does feel they made a mistake we should support that too. The trans person should have the freedom to change their mind as they see fit. Just because some people do does not mean other people will also.

Well, i was getting free hormones in the beginning. The testosterone blocker is dirt cheep, but the female hormones were basically BC. At the time Yaz was tossing their shit out there for free. One of the reasons I knew Yaz was going to kill and harm women was because taking the hormones for transition meant I had to get monthly blood tests to determine potassium levels and other problems. My doctor was also testing me for nicotine as he very strict about not giving HRT to smokers as the cancer rates were insane. Anyway, my potassium spiked and he immediately pulled me off and started my on other pills.

Women did not have to do monthly blood tests to take birth control. Unfortunately that lead to Yaz harming a number of them because they knew that their product would do this to a certain percentage of people, but they had a certain amount of time to market and make profit before the true problems became known. I have to wonder how many poor women were hurt because of Yaz giving discounted BC to a large number of those women who would also have trouble paying for blood monitoring over time.

This.
My partner* has been openly non-binary/trans-masculine for years now but only recently decided to go through with top surgery (basically a combination of dysphoria and hating their binder) and even being in their late thirties and with great insurance when they have surgery later this month it will be the culmination of a six month process.
.
*We use partner to describe our long term committed non-spousal relationship. Both of us also have spouses that we live with most days of the week.

Also this.
The partner I described in my post above is having a kid (well their spouse is and they are going to coparent) and they’ve decided to start off using pronouns that match the kid’s genitals. Now of course they won’t be forcing gender roles on the kid and will be open to them identifying as they chose but in no way will they force anything on the kid. Freedom to chose is the opposite of force.
.
Even the family in our polycule that is starting off using they/them pronouns are only doing it until the kid is old enough to voice an opinion on it for themself.

That's why you let a retired police officer/expert witness level security consultant write the policy for the policy and procedure manual and administer the system.

No system is perfect, but we've spared almost no expense to make sure that nothing can happen and if it does happen, it'll be documented with audio/video surveillance and multiple adult witnesses. It also helps that we have an overabundance of licensed, certified teachers (Pre-k through High School) in our congregation. We have so many that it's always been a staff dream to one day open our own school. We have the bodies and classroom space, we just have to pay them.

And I'll take my suspension for revealing Dinner's personal info off-the-air, thanks.

I do have to admit in the past I have been known to welcome trans men to being a man when they started complaining no one wants them. Women don't ask men out most of the time. However, the other way around was fucking awesome in the beginning. I lived as a guy for a long time playing the role. You have to chase the women down and there is a lot of rejection. I used to hate the process, and then I came out. There are guys hanging on me, free drinks, and I don't need to do a fucking thing to get a date. That was a great change until I realized they don't stop. I have to deal with people blocking my car in parking spaces to get my number. I have had drive through people hold up my food to hit on me. I cannot drink that many drinks at the club because I am driving. I don't enjoy turning people down, and I am probably at the bar with a friend trying to talk and you are interrupting. I cannot keep guys from grinding on me on the dance floor.

I actually started to appreciate how annoying it was for everyone to think you dressed up just for them to hit on you. Each side has their difficulties, learn to be alone and not be lonely because people and love sucks.

while that is funny, it also points to another reality. If you talk to the tiny handful of people who detransitions or regret there's only three stories:
1. a bad medical outcome. For example, it's possible to botch GRS and create a situation where there's not a solid wall between vagina and rectum and it's a pretty horrible outcome.
2. I got religion. I've thus been pressured to stop being a hell-bound sinner who defied the will of god.
3. most commonly, "society didn't accept me according to my identity" - no one sees me as a man, or my wife took the kids and left, or, I can't find a job anywhere, or any of dozens of other negative experiences.

The key to these - other than the religious brainwashing basically none of these people say "I wasn't REALLY trans" but rather "society (or circumstances) make it to hard too live out being trans"

That's exactly it.