2020 Presidential Primaries

That's it.

I lke that @garamet thought you were full of shit.

That's your opinion, of course. My point is simply that the same excuses used for Ford are now being used for Reade. Look at how much you're willing to say just to accommodate the understanding that you are denying this woman her credibility because of who she is accusing.

I mean, you're free to do so, but none of what you said changes anything at all. You're still excusing Biden and maligning Reade, just as the GOP excused Kavanaugh and maligned Reade. Just understand that you're no different than they, despite your protestations to the contrary.

Yeah, you totally sound like someone that's sincerely interested in the truth and not just desperate to take down Biden.

Didn't notice. My feed is troll free again

She was mocking you so I found the ad to shut her up. Not that you need help.

she looks like Darth Vaders about to tell her not to choke on her aspirations

You totally don't sound like a partisan rape apologist.

Stacey Abrams’ face upon realizing Biden not making surprise announcement she would be VP

There is absolutely no way she thought he was inviting her on the show to offer her the vice presidency on live TV. Unlike the Current Occupant, she's aware that this isn't a reality show.

You're really working to spin this bullshit aren't you?

1. If it happened in the mid 80s then it happened when Kavanaugh was attending Yale, not high school. Which would mean he wasn't even living in the area at the time of the alleged incident.
2.) I can give leeway to not remembering how many guys were in the room because parties tend to be crowded and in the heat of the moment you're going to get that number wrong.
3.) She can't even remember where the friggin party was. That's bullshit dude. You're not going to forget a detail like that. That was the first sign that this was all bullshit. Well, that and the fact that this all convientenly popped up right when it was time to have a vote after we had already been forced to watch many senate wanna be presidents make asses of themselves.
4.) If she can't remember where the party was I'm not surprised she can't get that part straight either.

Ford had no credibility and that explains why after Kavanugh was confirmed she slid right back into obscurity. You'll never see her press charges nor democrats push for that because they all know it was bullshit. There was no rape involving Kavanugh. It was nothing more than a big lie that democrats propped up in an attempt to stop a conservative from being put on the US Supreme court.

I'm not going to argue Reade's allegations because I'm pretty sure that she's lying too. I just find it funny that you'll bend over backwards to explain away Ford's bullshit but you won't buy Reade's bullshit. If Reade was directing these allegations at a Republican, you'd be eating it up. Just admit it. You,like many Biden supporters , have selective outrage when it comes to accusations of rape.

Kinda sad, but I think he's doing the right thing.

This is the reason this fight is a loser at this point. I did not want the senator from MBNA before these accusations. You add on top of it he was pretty much the white racist added to Obama's campaign to assure the white racist voters Obama is not going to go too far with anti-bussing joe there to stop him from any real change. Joe's only purpose on the Obama ticket was as a dog whistle to racists and rich white people that no one really means hope and change for the poor and minorities. Before the Tara accusations came up I already thought Biden's creepy touchy feeley bullshit did not belong in the presidency or in any modern professional environment because it was sexist, rapey, and hurt people.

Some of us were really happy when Biden was getting hammered by everyone else. You are correct that this incident many years ago that really does not have much aside from he said/she said going for it is the straw that was put on the already crushed and broken camel's back. It is a dem tactic to deflect from the senator from MBNA who voted against bussing, started fights with black people at his public pool because he is a racist, licks and sniffs random women in front of his wife and kid, put his son on the board of a foreign oil company when he probably never even pumped gasoline into the family limo, and has a long history of being a shitburger.

Tara read does not mean much to a vote I was going to have to hold down chunks to make anyway.

This. It's like people think I have to find reasons to consider Joe Biden a scumbag. I believe Tara precisely because Joe Biden is a scumbag who doesn't understand the concept of personal space, and is on camera touching women and children in uncomfortable ways. Sorry, but my lying eyes, ears, and ability to look up Joe Biden's political history is more than enough for me to reject him. I think what irks me is how cheaply and easily so many people are willing to debase themselves to defend Joe Biden.

You are absolutely right. When Warren backstabbed bernie by pretending he was some sort of sexist creep who hated women and was trying to put her down for being one, that came across as a lie. This is because I knew who bernie was, and there was no new complaints that surfaced about Bernie. I also knew warren takes opportunities to present things in dishonest ways when it benefits her. She backed down on her proposals for popularity. Her saying she was an american indian despite knowing she did not have enough background to qualify as that group, but she was happy to take the small benefits by claioming it when everyone pushed her to do it. These are all signs of a person was not as noble and honest as the other.

It was those reputations that made that conclusion easy even though I was not going to back off of Bernie even if I thought he said what she said because his actions did not fit a negative view of women. Everything that Biden has stood for has been terrible. The best he has is lip service to better causes while he votes and works against good and moral goals. I believe her, even though I am not making a decision based on her story, because biden touches women and he is a scumbag of old school proportions. The fact he is and has always been a lying POS rich racist white dude is the reason I am not voting for him, and I believe Tara.

This one's the hardest to square for me. Like, she said some of those positive things in private, too. Nothing backhanded either like "I'm glad Joe Biden is finally learning that violence against women is a serious issue." She was long gone from DC. This isn't like Weinstein where women needed to keep saying nice things about him to avoid being blackballed. (And indeed, Weinstein being a rapist seems to have been something of an open secret. That doesn't happen because people say nice things in private.)

That too. Like, he was nominated for Vice President 12 years ago (and he'd run for President in the 2004). One heartbeat away and all that. One credible word to Obama, and he would have dumped Biden in favor of some other eastern seaboard Democrat, probably a more southern one. I have plenty of beefs with Obama, but I don't think "would put credibly accused rapist on the ticket" is one of them.

On the other hand, maybe she was waiting for revenge, waiting until she could do the most damage to him. Still doesn't help with #5, but I can understand that explanation for the timing.

Sometimes you can say things that are good about people who have wronged you. Joe Biden might have good qualities she agrees with even though she might tell women to watch out and don't be alone with him. She may very well agree with a lot of his politics and has seen him help people. I have friends who I have loved, but I would not hire them. I have people I don't like that I might give a job to because I know they are good at what they do.

I have a friend who I have pushed away because there is a lot of racism around her and her friends. I also cannot keep up the the brand whore judgments they make at times. OTOH if I had a business opportunity to develop from the ground up she would be on the short list of people I would invite in because she does a hell of a job, and I can watch out for the racism if it comes around. That is even knowing she was convicted in a murder when she was in her early teens. I would probably even vote for her as president because her racist things are stuff like arguing for the confederate flag and having some on their bikes because they think it means southern rebel. She is so dedicated and able to overcome and be strong I would be for her even if I had some reservations about some of her ideas and how they would effect others.

I also know some people take assault in weird ways. My first girlfriend hung around with a guy who she said raped her, and he was stalky and creepy and pretty much admitted it. She had good things to say about him, but I would never trust his ass. I still believed her in what she said even when she defended him as a friend to me. Some women do things like that and it does not mean that the event never happened. Victims often try to blame themselves for the actions of their attackers, and listening to her interview with MK she said she tried to figure out what she did to make him do what he did. That is a victim thing that is extremely common with abuse.

But only now...
Not when he was VP, you where fine and dandy with him then...
Enough to not look into his background...

I do have to say at the time Biden was VP I actually believed the dems looked into things. I was younger and stupider at the time. That is why I try to look into people in elections much more today. It is easier, but the media still tries to downplay things that are important. One of the reasons I trust in Bernie so much is because every time I looked into his words and past I understood what he was saying and see he tries to act in a good and decent way. I am not saying he is perfect, but when he makes mistakes I also see him correct course when he discovers it. I can say Biden covers things up and works in shady ways that I do not approve of.

Under Obama I really did not think Biden would be such a problem. However, hindsight is much more clear. Now that I see who Biden is I do not want him as president for multiple reasons. Tara Reade is not even a blip on the page to tell the truth.

He was running for VP 12 years ago. Have you not grown, changed, evolved your social or political views after an entire decade?

What a comment. How suspicious that after 12 years, I've changed my views on someone as I've learned more about them, and about the world around me.

I don't remember these type of allegations being around in 2008. At that point the only thing I knew about Biden is he was a Senator who had failed a couple of times to run for President. The most controversial event attached to Biden was the plagiarism charges from his 1988 run. He was also known to lie about past accomplishments or events he had been a part of. That was it. Nothing about any women issues.

Exactly. While I'm sure it was out there somewhere, it wasn't being trumpeted by any mainstream media, and at the time I still believed that Democrats gave a shit about ethics, and decency (yeah, I know), so it never even occurred to me to question the narrative presented. The DNC lie about a candidate's background? Obama would do something bad like select a guy based on his appeal to white conservative voters and not his ability to lead in the event Obama was incapacitated? Absurd. Obama was one of the good guys! That meant Joe Biden was one of the good guys. It all came down to trust, and I trusted them.

She looks like Darth Jabba the Hutt.

If Reade were accusing Trump, Kavanaugh or anyone in the same way, I would still point to the same contradictions, the same possible sources of bias, and the same credibility issues. If I ever back someone who accuses someone of a serious crime, whether it is sexual assault or otherwise, who has as many credibility issues as Reade does, feel free to throw these posts in my face.

I at least acknowledge (though doubt) the possibility that Reade is telling the truth despite the red flags. I don't think that is something that most on the GOP side did with Kavanaugh. Even though the Ford alleged red flags were fewer and smaller, and even though she passed a polygraph, I think most were in lockstep that Ford was either a liar or (after she testified and withstood cross-examination reasonably well) crazy.

Dude, polygraphs have proven to be unreliable. That's why they're no longer used in court cases. Even mother Jones did an article on this specifically in relation to sexual assault..

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-misconduct-allegations-polygraph-unreliable/

As to number 1, Ford getting the year wrong could be the innocent slip of the tongue, confusion about when the event supposedly took place, or a rewriting of history once she figured out that Kavanaugh would have been at ale in the mid-80s

As to 3, it's not that she can't remember where the party was. She used the adjective "near" but one of her cross-examiners tried to argue that the place where it was wasn't "near." In this context, that's not really a contradiction. I can think something is near when it's a 5 minute walk versus someone else thinking that near means within 10 miles.

As to 4., expecting someone to have a level of detail as to the interior of a house where she'd just gone once (I think) 30 years ago seems a little unfair to me. YMMV.

Anyway, I should point out the main reason I believe Ford is that she took and passed a polygraph. Yes, I know they are not perfect or admissible in court.But for those of us who aren't spies, I tend to think that they are probably pretty hard to beat.

And yes, if Reade were to take and pass a polygraph, that would change my idea of her credibility.

The confirmation had little to do with the truth of the allegations against Kavanaugh. It had everything to do with Republicans having a majority of the Senate. Even if a time-traveler showed up with a video of Kavanaugh attempting to rape Ford, the Senate would still have voted to confirm him. Fairly sure the statute of limitations has long since run on an attempted sexual assault from 1982.

I believe Tara Reade, and I believe that the entirety of the mainstream media will continue to fire at her until she has no credibility in their eyes whatsoever. You doubt her. They did their job. You'll be able to vote for Joe Biden with a clear conscience, despite the very on record accounts of women who spoke up against Biden touching them against their will, and making them uncomfortable with his unwanted touching, sniffing, and kissing. You can disregard his vile treatment of Anita Hill. You can disregard the public images and videos where Joe Biden kisses children on the lips, gropes them, sniffs them, touches them and makes them uncomfortable.

It's why I take those "we talked to Joe's staffers about..." articles with a grain of salt. They talk about how he'd never done anything to cause them concern, because they sure would say something by golly if they saw inappropriate behavior, which says more about them than they realize, when the full light of day has shown us what he has done around them in full view of the public. You're okay with that, and if not so much okay, then at the very least you don't consider any of it 'serious' enough to warrant a look elsewhere, for another candidate while we were still months out from the convention.

His personal behavior towards women and children is inexcusable. You're still willing to accept him as the nominee, and then vote for him.
Remember that: knowing what you do about Joe Biden, and knowing that there is still time to choose someone else, you're still going to accept him as the nominee, and then vote for him in the election.

No matter how many pages of text you post to justify your position, it doesn't change what you know and what you're willing to dismiss, and whom.

I have no doubt that it was a rewriting of history. All of it.

She couldn't remember where it was period. I went to parties in high school as I'm sure we all did. Most of us knew the places we were going along with whose house it was. The only grey area would be the house of a person who went to a rival high school, but if something big happened there like that it wouldn't be forgotten. You might not remember everything that happened at the party, but you certainly remember where it was. It's usually the top topic of conversation at high school reunions. Everyone remembers that stuff.

Then you're a fool. They aren't allowed in court for a very good reason. They're bullshit. The only thing they measure is an emotional part of the brain in response to a question, which could mean anything. People who have been guilty have passed lie detector tests. We might not all be spies, but a great many are habitual liars, which is the only skill you need to pass a test.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/health/lie-detector-facts-accuracy/index.html

What part of oppressing the victim and keeping things quiet don't you understand?