2020 Presidential Primaries

How is it ridiculous? Let us not make joe a saint the way republicans made trump a saint. That is just downright lying. Joe touches women and girls in very inapropriate ways and everyone goes "That's just joe." That is exactly what the metoo movement is about. It is about a powerful man who thinks he can touch, rub, sniff, and even lick women in a professional environment. It is not just Tara. We have video of him being way too touchy for a professional. You do not get to feel people up because you happen to be a senator or VP. That may have been the old way, but it is not anymore.

This is not bullshit. This is the way joe acts, and he does other stupid and awful things too. Are all the top dems mentally defective and rapey like joe? could we find one that isn't? why do we need this stooge at this point to push the establishment agenda? There has got to be some sort of dummy plug back there that hasn't been creepy as joe biden.

The polygraph thing matters to me only as far as an accusers willingness to take one. Asking someone if they're willing to testify under oath or to take a polygraph are two easy bluffs to catch a liar. When Megyn Kelly asked Reade about taking a polygraph, she resisted and suggested Biden take one instead. That tells me everything I need to know about Reade's sincerity.

Tara Reade said, in that interview, that she would take a lie detector test if Joe Biden also took one (she also said she would answer questions under oath, and also cross-examination).
Joe Biden has power. Tara Reade doesn't. By forcing him to also take the test as she is taking it, they will be equally vulnerable, and the power over her that Biden has will be nullified in that context, at least in the public eye.
Realizing the effects of structural violence and patriarchal authority is a fundamental understanding of feminism. I won't pretend you don't understand this, either, because I know you do.

The interview clip:

@Amaris, aside from the unreliability of polygraph tests, "I'll take a polygraph if Biden does" puts every public figure at the mercy of every woman who has a story to tell... true or false. Essentially it's blackmail.

Now, I'm on record as saying I wish anyone but Biden was the choice to beat Donnie-boy. I'm also on record as supporting women whose stories are valid and not amazingly coincidental and decades after the fact.

But if the likes of Roy Moore can skate on raping a 14-year-old because he's a Good Ol'Boy and his constituents believe he's a "godly man," and you want to do something meaningful instead of suggesting tying up the entire justice system with "He said, She said" - not to mention gnawing on a bone that's already got FOXNews' spittle on it - I'd recommend you broaden your perspective.

Don't vote for Biden. Vote for Gary Johnson or Mickey Mouse or Jesus if you wish (although Mickey's got some shady stuff in his past), but you're doing no one any favors by repeating "I know he's guilty because I believe Reade." If you can't find a candidate who's as pure as the driven snow, sit this one out. There are far better causes for you to champion.

And that's a dodge. That's a cop-out.

Besides, It's already established that a guilty sociopath could beat a polygraph, so Biden passing one wouldn't convince you of anything.

wow that Biden children touching video was creepy! Unless those kids are his close relatives (grandkids or nieces/nephews that he has frequent contact with) it would put me on edge to see that in person.

What better cause to champion than to prevent a man, one whom I believe has raped women, from obtaining power?

It’s not about being pure as the driven snow, it’s about convincing the electorate to abstain from choosing one rapist over another while working very hard to believe that they’re not the same, and to choose someone else while there is still time.

Because as I’m sure you know, I will be forced to live under his authority. I won’t get to opt out of Joe Biden’s America.

She already said she would testify under oath. That is a far greater risk to her than a lie detector test you don’t believe in.

The thumbnail in the first video reminds me of this.

That's absolutely zero risk to her, because it's impossible to prove a negative. Even if there's concrete proof that Biden was in a different place at the time and date she claims the assault happened, you'll claim that her memory is only hazy because of the trauma, and that it still happened at a different place and time. You've already defended her changing her story repeatedly. Nothing is going to convince you she's making it up, because you desperately want it to be true.

Someone has been drinking too much of the dem kool aid.

I am going to say this again.

YOU DON'T GET TO TOUCH WOMEN BECAUSE YOU ARE THE BOSS ANYMORE!

Joe is not stopping this behavior. These behaviors are not OK anymore. You don't get to touch people because they work for you. Joe does that and then expects people to let him do that. Yes, standards are changing for the better. The dems should catch the fuck up and dump the creepy old men.

Let us not forget the man also voted against integrating blacks into white schools. He voted with the banks to not let students declare bankruptcy like corporations. He sniffs, licks, rubs, and touches women in a professional environment, and thinks that is a good way to be. He harassed black community members at a public pool because he didn't like uppity blacks. He is an establishment, sexist, racist stooge. His votes suck. His positions suck. His personality sucks. He is a fucking disgrace. On top of all of that he now seems to be suffering from dementia which is just going to make all of that worse.

The dems have time to find a decent candidate. They do not have to run Bernie because they are never going to run him. I accept that. Fuck Joe. Take Bernie and Joe off of the list of dems that started and pick any one of the rest. I would love warren. She will rip the shit out of trump and make a wonderful first female president. She is a billion times better than Biden. Let us go with her.

In a vacuum? Nothing. But against the Asshole in the White House? Plenty.

So now it's not just Tara Reade but "women"? I guess I missed that part.

I find myself wondering what amazing skills any man would have to finger a woman wearing business attire in a public corridor without anyone else noticing. Has Reade specified she was wearing a pantsuit that day? Well, I guess he could have shoved his fingers far enough down to get where he was going, but then I have to ask myself why she didn't push him away or at least murmur "Stop, please stop!" If she was wearing a skirt and pantyhose... helluva lot of work for what, exactly?

If this had been at a frat party, if this had been in an office with a closed door, if there had been alcohol involved, I'd say "there may be some truth here." But as I told you via PM, I've listened to women's stories of being molested and worse. They don't forget. They may not call the cops, they may not go public, but at least they tell someone, even if it's years later.

I'm not seeing that here. I'm seeing revisionist history that just happens to coincide with a major campaign and a frustrated Bernie supporter.

I love you, John. But you're absolutely OCD on this issue. And if the Good People go sideways on this, Donnie-boy wins. That could easily mean a death sentence for you, and for tens of thousands of others.

The Needs of the Many, and all that. That's all I can say.

I’m not the one defending a man in a position of power and authority, who is known for touching women without their permission. So if there is desperation, it’s from anyone voting blue no matter who. I believe Tara. You go ahead and believe Joe Biden. It’s not like the Dems give a damn whether he raped her or not. They have an election to lose, and they’ll be damned if a woman will stand in their way.

At least you now know the answer as to why and how people would ever convince themselves to vote for a man like Donald Trump. You merely need look in the mirror.

Donald Trump wins the moment the DNC chooses Joe Biden. I warn you now, people have warned the Democrats before about him. You go into this with open eyes. If the needs of the many truly mattered to the Democratic Party, Joe Biden would have been laughed off the first debate stage when he tried to use Obama’s record as his own.

They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about the needs of the many. Raped women, dying kids in cages, brown people being bombed into blood spatter, they only matter when it is convenient. Joe Biden won’t do a damned thing for any of them. The many will continue to suffer.

That assumes, of course, that he will be elected.
He won’t.

Your faith is touching.

Last time I checked, the people chose Joe Biden.

really? Who did the people of New York vote for ?

Faith can move mountains, but apparently it is willful ignorance that moves elections. The latter is what one requires when dismissing Tara Reade's claims while knowing about Joe Biden's public history with touching women and children. Even @Quest used it as an example, saying that everyone knew about Biden's touchy feely past, as if knowing about it makes it acceptable, not morally acceptable of course, but electably acceptable, which clearly operates on a different morality, where genuine human concerns about the rights of women are seen as politically motivated, trumped by a need to get rid of one sexual predator who lets immigrant children die of neglect and abuse in cages, for another sexual predator who lets immigrant children die of neglect and abuse in cages. All of you who fight to defend Joe Biden should be ashamed of yourselves but, like the Trump supporters who shouted "FAKE NEWS" and pressed the button for Trump, you'll forget your role in it when it all comes crashing down.

They haven't had their primaries yet.

In the past day:

"Is Ronan Farrow Too Good To Be True?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/business/media/ronan-farrow.html

"'Believe All Women' is a Right Wing Trap"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/opinion/tara-reade-believe-all-women.html


Somebody's about to be investigated. I'm not saying it's Joe Biden, because as we've all seen it turns out a lot of big names have been sexually assaulting others on the layaway plan, but I think someone big is about to have an article published that needs heavy downplaying by the press, and so the NYT starts manufacturing that all important consent.

It does seem like whomever it will be is connected to the Me Too movement in some way, though. Maybe Anita Dunn? She defended Harvey Weinstein and now works on the Biden campaign. That would be pretty big.

I honestly don't understand the "Biden will lose to Trump, so replace Biden with Bernie" argument, when Bernie couldn't even beat Biden with a four year head start.

I like Bernie, but I also understand how transitive properties work.

I didn't say replace Biden with Bernie. I'm done with Bernie, said that when he dropped out. Reinforced that decision when he endorsed Joe Biden. I'm not voting for any Democrats this election.
That being said, Bernie lost the moment Obama made some phone calls, and the other candidates dropped out and backed Biden. Once that happened, there was no way Bernie was going to beat a unified front of multiple mainstream Democrats supporting the same guy, even though the primaries were effectively canceled, and the lead Joe had was a few hundred delegate votes with more than a thousand to spare. Bernie's ground game was second to none. Joe Biden didn't even show up in states where he won. It is also known, and was reported by the absurdly socialist rag Politico that there were DNC superdelegates who were working out ways to disqualify Bernie from the start. If you think for two seconds Joe Biden won because of his merits, because of his campaigning skills, or because of his sheer popularity, I have a bridge to sell you.

You have a chance to choose someone else, and not go with Joe Biden. That you're going to let the DNC decide for you is certainly your prerogative, but your vote will endorse Joe Biden and everything he currently represents, whether you like him or not. Choose wisely.

So who? Who do you suggest replace Biden if he withdraws?

The logic probably goes something like this:

1. The transitive property does not necessarily work for elecctions. Just because Candidate A beat Candidate B does not mean that Candidate B would not have a better chance against Candidate C.
2. Trump is such a disaster that anyone with a pulse and a functioning brain should be able to beat him at this point.
3. Biden barely qualifies since he is in cognitive decline and has been AWOL
4. There is a certain percentage of the electorate who would not vote for Biden under any circumstances but will vote for Bernie (people who are opposed to Biden's centrist politics, people who are tired of the status quo, people who have a particular issue with corporatism, etc.) Call that X.
5. The Reade allegations and the touching adds to the people in category 4 by making a suspected rapist the candidate, and by taking away one of the strongest points the Democrats could have: drawing a moral contrast between Trump and their nominee.
6. Biden generates no passion or enthusiasm and passion and enthusiasm are needed to beat Trump.
7. Pretty much everyone who is backing Biden is "Blue no matter who" so will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. Call that Y.
7a. If Z is the number of people who would never vote Bernie, X+Y>Y+Z, so Bernie is the better choice.
8. Bernie being the nominee means that he will tap into the youth vote and the non-voters for the election in a way tht he did not in the primary
9. Bernie's performance in the primary is not reflective of how he would do in the general election because of the mean ol' DNC or whatever; he would magically do better in the facce of voter suppression, Russian manipulation, etc.
10. People will flock to Bernie's policies
11. The Reade situation means that there are going to be a whole bunch of attack ads from which Biden will have a tough time recovering. (But Bernie of course has no skeletons in his closet and the ads that might hit him for being a socialist hypocritical millionaire who has not gotten a darn thing done in 30 yeas in the Senate and who has no practical way to pay for his ideas will not affect him at all)
12. The main argument for Biden has always been electability, and with the Reade allegations, his electability just took a nosedive.

In case it needs to be made clear, I do agree generally with 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 but disagree with the rest. (I do thik there will be Reade attacck ads but don't think they will be effective. And at some point someone would counterpunch with the two dozen or so women who have accused Trump of sexual assault.)

Yikes. Why'd they write you out of the first season of wordforge?

I'm like the Beverly Crusher of WF. There at the beginning, left for a season, then came back hopefully for the rest of its run, the movies. (But not even friggin' mentioned in Picard.)