Doomcock is (probably) a Nazi. (Probably)

And yet, you proceed to rail upon all kinds of nuTrek things here without ever acknowledging the fact that they must be doing something right since it is so popular.

Well, I suppose 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong, but popularity doesn't have any connection to quality in my mind.

I've explained this 5 times now.
THATS. THE. POINT.
If you think the Doomcock evidence is flimsy, then so is theirs.
"Duhhhrrr, I don't use their sites!".
Bullshit, all the anti-SJW agenda shit ripples out from them.
If you don't directly use them, you use someone who uses them.
They're ground zero of the infection.

There's two lesson in cognitive dissonance going on, and people aren't learning them.

1. If you think the standard of evidence against Doomcock is flimsy, you don't get to turn around and use that exact standard of evidence for narratives YOU want to believe.

2. If you think popularity doesn't matter, you don't get to turn right around and use it for things YOU like.


Conservatives have this weird problem where they think THEIR hypocrisy doesn't count.
It goes all the way up to Trump, he'll even come right out and SAY it, like with his and his family's mail-in voting.

I for one am glad that the Picard show is much more successful than Doomclock.

I don't know who Doomcock is. I also don't know who Midnight's Edge is.

MAH NO-NO PLACE!

Y'know when FF is shitting up a Trek or SW thread in MC?
Imagine that unpleasant experience, but as a show.
And the show was produced by the mirror universe version of Joel from MST3K.
And the fans were a bunch of horrible tweens.
And the horrible tweens grow up into anti-woman Republican judges.
And the Republican judges legalize wife punching.
And the wife punchers all go to work at Lubak's broccoli factory.
And get covid-19.
Kinda like that.

You really need to get a job

I for one am shocked and appalled by this disturbing news about Domclock. This thread needs more, if not less, discussion on this serious issue or thing.

I believe he's one of the villains from Rick and Morty.

I keep seeing Midnight's Edge and reading @Midnight Funeral.


...and frankly...

All of this, and mind you, Disco got green lit within a decade of ENT's cancellation, where the show was pulling worse numbers than reruns to America's Next Top Model and almost universally panned. After the way that show went down, I thought it was gonna be another 2 decades at a minimum before anyone at Viacom looked at this franchise again. I honestly expected the first Kelvinverse movie to flop too, if I'm honest. I was pleasantly surprised that it was actually entertaining for what it was.

But most importantly, it made money. It generated interest for Trek that hadn't existed since Voyager and regardless of what us geeks thought of the movies, I feel confident to say that had the movies not made money, no one at CBS would have been chomping at the bit to do more Trek, especially not before Les Moonves' departure. And certainly not multiple concurrent series that thankfully take place in different parts of the franchise so that it won't take anything from the other to like only one of them.

Speaking of sped up time-tables, it took Trek 50 years to have an openly gay crewmember, so I thought MINIMUM, it would be another 10-20 to get the trans on there, and maybe by 2045, the bon-binary/gender-fluids, but NOPE!!
BAM! Disco season 3.

Aren't shapeshifters non-binary and gender fluid by nature?

Star Trek VI and DS9, ahead of the curve as usual.

All in favor of representation in all forms, especially in Star Trek of all things. I just wish Discovery wasn't such a horribly written show and I don't trust them to do it any sort of justice aside from checking off some boxes.

My father is spinning in his grave right now. You should have seen how mad he got in 1987 when they changed 'no man' to 'no one' on the TNG theme. He talked about it for SEVEN STRAIGHT FUCKING YEARS.

I agree, though. As long as Discovery does its characters right, I don't care who, what, or when they are. But the show's track record has been hilariously spotty when it comes to characterization. When ENT has more indelible characters than your show does...well, that just isn't good.

I actually think they're getting most of the characterization right, I don't have much of a problem with that, or the cast which in my view is pretty fantastic. It's just the framework and the season long big bad type plotting and pacing and all action all the time that doesn't do it for me.

Ugh, no. The characterization is horrible on DSC. The only more wooden lead than Burnham is Archer (ironic, because the actors playing them are fucking awesome). The bridge crew are a bunch of ciphers. Just awful writing, all in service to the big bad plot type you mentioned. Plot is king on nu-Trek, and I'm not into it.

Ehhh....they paid lip-service to it, but 1. the Dominion leader was "Female Shapeshifter", and 2. face it, Odo lived as a straight man in love with Kira.
You never saw him wanting a threesome with men or something.

Now Dax, that's another story.

Dax really was ridiculously ahead of her time.

I might grant you this, and I see where you're coming from. I was mostly trying to say the cast itself is pretty good and they're doing about the best with what they're given. Whether it's the writing or direction I don't know, but the whole thing seems disjointed and forced.

The cast itself has ridiculous ringers on it, absolutely. Under the solid, unified vision, this show could have been something amazing. And who knows, it might pull it out regardless.

I'm more than willing to give it another shot with s3 upcoming, it looks like it's going in an interesting new direction. Too bad it really didn't from the start.

Hell, Chris Claremont was ahead of the curve by a long shot with Mystique by having her be Nightcrawler's father.
Predictably, that got retconned hard over the years, but when I first read about it, after the initial doubletake, I thought it was a cool idea and exploring what a shapeshifter's (physical) sexuality would be was fascinating, and this was before I understood the concept of trans and the comfort I have with the concept now. (I'm sure I still have more to learn)

I think Dax had more trans than the shapeshifters in trek. UC's shapeshifter sort of had some gender play, but when it came to Odo and the dominion shapeshifters gender and perspective seemed sort of skipped over and left up to the viewer to imagine more than presented. I have seen trans shapeshifters done to show the ideas that being a different gender had it's purposes, but I do not remember much of that with odo and the dominion. The one in UC seemed to be a bit more of a joke throw away character.

That is not to say ST did not approach the subject. There was the episode where Riker triend to give the androgenous planet a gender. I even found the episode where Data's daughter came in to have some pre-cognition about allowing a person to chose their gender. I always saw ODO and the dominion shapeshifters as cisgendered in their presentation. I may have also missed some of the episodes where it was an issue presented more definitively.

Trek sort of skipped a lot of areas where trans gender might have been a factor for exploration. Certainly you could explored gender with the Q a lot more than they did. According to voyager they do have children and seem to have chosen a gender for some reason. This is probably where the voyager writers were not very adept at imagining things. They could have addressed why data was made male instead of androgen. Certainly they could have done things with the dominion shapeshifters.

I saw someone make a great point that having cisgendered actors play trans-coded characters and pretending that solves it, is like if there had never been Uhura, and then there had been "let that be your last battlefield", and then going "there, we did race, all done! *dusts hands off*".

When you have Alex Kurtzman himself saying that it's not about Star Trek (Read: it's not story and character driven based on Gene's vision) , but rather about pushing their political agenda, then you know they care little about the writing or telling good stories.

Oh I'm sure it's mostly about money. It's a business, not a religion. And I don't really give a toss about "Gene's Vision™" either, dude was a fucking weirdo and he was rightfully sidelined after the first few seasons of TNG. But since it is a business, I'm not really willing to throw any money at what they're currently tossing out.

Strange New Worlds does have my interest, if the studio propaganda isn't just propaganda. Anson Mount's version of Pike was pretty spot on, and I would be interested if it does end up being a more optimistic episodic show as they claim it might be.