And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no less

Now if you land in an Ohio prison, you will never EVER taste pork again. All because the Muslims in the prison are "offended" by the idea of pork where they are.

http:////www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/10/03/national/a082710D78.DTL&type=politics

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Accommodate one fairly common religious diet, accommodate all fairly common religious diets.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

They sure didn't throw a hissy fit, sue the state that it was "infringing on their religious rights"

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Any bets on how many members of Rightforge will suddenly become big advocates of prisoners' rights?

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Check the edit. They didn't have to complain, since they were already being accommodated.

It's in the exact article you linked to.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

More disingenuous outrage nonsense, eh LizK? If you had actually read your article properly you will see that what they have asked for is specially prepared meals akin to kosher meals already being prepared for Jewish. It does not say that non-Muslim or Jewish prisoners are to be forced to eat kosher or Halal meat.

So what exactly is the curtailment of rights here?

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Uh, the first paragraph in the link spells it out.

No more pork for anyone. Not seeing why they have chosen thus route, but her post is valid.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

No it isn't. It's not valid for the following reasons:-

1) This is not about pork. Let me quote you the article...

A muslim does not ask for a pork meal to be made according to Islamic law since muslims do not eat pork. Furthermore there are no Islamic laws relating to vegetables.

What this actually relates to, if you know anything about Islamic (or Kosher) practices, are all the other meats on the menu. Chicken, beef, etc. These they do eat, but must be killed in a certain way, just like Kosher meats are.

2) Jewish prisoners already get speciially prepared Kosher meals, which again will relate to meats other than pork

3) The muslims who brought the case has asked for hala meats in the same way as jews get kosher meats....thay have not asked for pork to be banned.

4) The article nowehere says that the muslims bringing the action have asked for pork to be banned.

4) In view of (1), (2), (3) & (4) it can only be concluded that some idiot in chrage or organising meals and has gone over the top by assuming their case somehow requires the banning of pork for non Jewish or Muslim prisoners. If this were true, then why not ban all meats other than Kosher and Halal meats?

Have another read of the article and tell me if I am wrong.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Conjugal visits, yo.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

I say give 'em all balogna sammiches with a smear of mustard and a glass of water twice a day.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Reread the article - there will be no more pork in the prisons. So non Jews and non Muslims can never have pork chops or ham with eggs again.
Or sausages.

And if there were kosher meals already, what the hell was the complaint from the Muslim sector? Kosher = halal.
Why did there have to be any lawsuit or complaint?

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

And the muslims didn't ask for that. The prison did that themselves.

No, kosher is not the same as halal. They're similar, but not exactly the same.

Because one religious was being accommodated and another wasn't.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Don't accommodate any of them unless it's medical.

One more deterrent to committing crimes. Fuck up and you may end up in a room full of bacon eaters.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Sheriff Joe agrees!

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Personally I don't think we should give Kosher or Halal. You get what you get. You're in prison. The only exception would be medical conditions.

With that said however if you're going to open the door for "special meals" for Jewish prisoners you've got to open that same door for Islamic ones.

Where I work they serve meals that meet the standard for Kosher/Halal. The meals come pre-made, frozen, from a certified food company. Not all Jews or Muslims eat them. Most eat the regular meals like everyone else because to get the meals you've got to get the rabbi or imam to approve it which means you have to be going to services and stuff. You can't just say, "I'm X so give me that meal".

This is what Ohio should do. If someone wants this type of food they should have to get approved by a imam or rabbi and prove it by actually being religious and going to services on a regular basis. Ohio is exaggerating its costs by claiming so many people.

And inmates don't need pork. They aren't going to die without it and trust me.....seeing what comes up from the kitchen for the inmates and knowing that jails and prisons all shop at the same suppliers it's more like 25% pork 75% soy or other fake shit. Why do you think the commissary business is so huge?

I've seen meat that looks like cardboard.

Plus Ohio probably is getting rid of pork because it's not cheap. Food costs are going up in prisons too. This is just the out they are taking.

So all in all this thread is just worthless

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Probably plenty of porksword

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Yeah..... You've never seen real jail food.

Because if you are going to make Kosher meals for Jewish prisoners by following "procedure A" then you have to make the Islamic meals by following "procedure A" as well.

They aren't doing that. What they are doing is taking the pork off a regular meal and then saying it meets the standard of Kosher/Halal when quite clearly it doesn't.

If they were giving Muslims the same exact meals Jewish inmates got then there would be no lawsuit.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Yes, but this is not requested by their law suit, according to the very article you rely on. What they have requested is Halal prepard food packs, i.e. Halal meat and diary products. That does not include pork.

Clearly what had happened here is some uneducated fuckwit thinks that banning pork for non Jewish/Islamic prisoners is the answer.....when, in actual fact, that does not address the complaint at all.

Put aside your media suckered outrage for a minute and think about it, if it were about pork why would a muslim bring a law suit asking for equality with Jews when Jews already don't eat pork?

Oh dear, oh dear.

It seems the extent of your ignorance knows no bounds today.

To say Kosher and Halal are the same is like saying that Catholics should wear condoms because Protestants do it and they're all Christians. While the killing practices are simolar (albeit not indentical), a kosher meat will have a prayer said over it by a Rabbi and Hala meat by an Imam. The prayers are very different, ergo the process is different.

Well, now that we have established that this is not about pork (for further details refer to post 9) perhaps you can tell me why it is fair that Jews get Kosher meals but Muslims aren't allowed Halal ones? Conversely, if you say they should not be allowed halal food, would you agree with the banning of kosher meals?

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Oh, this is precious.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Yeah. I fully expect prisons riots to come from not having sausages and pork chops.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

I think this is one for the US Supreme Court.

How dare people in prison be denied things. What next, Jamie Oliver and his Food Revolution?

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Heaven help you if you take away their applesauce, too.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

If we just shoot all the Muslim prisoners we don't have to feed 'em anything. Bullets are cheep!

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Frankly they should all just eat bread and water and be glad their getting that....prison should be a place you don't want to be in...so the food should bland.no TV....and no damn conjugal visits.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Yeah, fuck all of 'em. They did the crime, so they get to eat what the U.S. government says they eat.



That said, I'm against blanket bans of this sort on principle.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

I thought Jews were not allowed to eat pork either?

Hopefully, Kikey-Mikey can chime in and give us the lowdown.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Wouldn't be the first time. Happened in California.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

This is stupid, they could just eat the kosher stuff. Under Islamic law muslims are allowed to eat jewish kosher food, its slaughter and handling rules are even more stringent than halal.

Re: And the Muslims win another round at curtailing non-muslim rights .... in prison no le

Not true. The Koran specifically requires animals to be killed in the name of God (the Muslim version of God that is) by a muslim before an Imam, the requirements of which Kosher meat cannot meet.

There is some debate amongst muslims groups about whether or not, in a modern world, Kosher food is allowed, but the pro-kosher opinion is a minority, is certainly not part of Islamic law and, like I say, still doesn't meat the Koranic requirements.

In any event, this issue is not about whether or not they should be told to eat the Kosher meals. It's about the concept of equality. Either no group gets a special meal, or all groups are catered for. You can't tell a muslim "put up with Kosher food" anymore then you can a Jew to "put up with a halal kebab".