This is how many people are willing to get vaccinated against the coronavirus here in Austria: We are doomed. I wonder what solutions the refusers have? Another stolen year? Another 1,5 million dead? Another 20 trillion in damage? All so they can proudly have the last word? I'm against forcing things on people. But in this case I might agree. Because everybody who proudly refuses, refuses returning to a normal life for all of us.
Nah, we're not doomed. I honestly see society shifting fairly radically as the result of this pandemic. Pretty sure we will see stuff like "vaccine passports" (it's already been openly discussed) that will allow those who are vaccinated -- not just for COVID-19 but for other diseases -- to travel and work freely. I eventually see the anti-vaccers becoming second-class citizens. And I honestly have to say that after the complete and utter stupidity of 2020, I'm fine with that. Fuck stupid people. It's time we think of the overall good of humanity.
Not necessarily. You could have a massive vaccination campaign, for those who want it, then open everything wide up. The virus would hardly spread among those who are vaccinated, but would spread widely among the others. Then just let Darwin deal with the issue.
Where the anti-vaxxers are doing confirmed harm are in cases dealing with diseases where vaccination can't be done (immunocompromised) or where they aren't as ubiquitous as they were when a disease was more rampant. I'm thinking the measles outbreak at Disneyland, a possible smallpox outbreak. But yeah. I'm all for Darwin culling the willfully stupid and selfish.
I really want to visibly mark the anti-vaxxers. We can say it is so that we can know for health reasons who does not take vaccines. However, I would consider it a stealth stupid warning. I think I would be much less frustrated in life if I could see that coming wherever I am and just know to adjust accordingly.
Only you realise that is not how it works, right? Some people can't get the vaccine, some won't see a result, and many suffer as ICUs continue to be filled by covid patients. We need roughly 60% to get vaccinated.
Others have beaten me to it, but as tempting as this sentiment is the reality is it's abhorrent. Also worth pointing out that the longer a virus can spread amongst unvaccinated people, the more time it has to mutate to the point it can overcome the vaccination.
Nope. If 2020 has done anything, it's completely eliminated any patience I have with stupidity. The human race is a precious thing. Given the vastness of the universe, there's certainly life elsewhere but the distances are so vast that we're essentially alone. I'd be tempted to use the phrase "intelligent life" but so many of us are completely idiotic that I'm not sure it's a fair description. Perhaps "sentient life"? Anyway, if a bunch of idiots want to drag the rest of the species down, they can eat dirt for all I care.
No, I didn't miss the point. I was responding to Bailey's post about abhorrence and shouldn't have included Async's, because I don't entirely agree with what he's proposing. As stated in my earlier post, I believe the anti-vaccers and other related idiots need to essentially become second-class citizens with severe restrictions on their mobility. As you aptly pointed out, vaccinating only a certain percentage of the population doesn't actually solve the problem and may create bigger issues. The alternative is... abhorrent.
At this point I'm cool with just about any amount of punishment and/or suffering for anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. It's treason against the human race.
Of course. But it seemed like a nice sentiment. Hardly a serious scientific analysis of the situation. The unfortunate reality, however, is that that is about how it is likely to play out, except that the bad results won't be limited to the anti-vaxxers.
Austria seems to have a disproportionate share of believers in esoteric BS (admittedly mostly my own anecdotal observation, but i would really be surprised if that couldn't be backed up by numbers)... I really wonder why that is
Hold them down and jab them if they won’t take it voluntarily. Humanity is at war. Antivaxers and anti-maskers are on the side of the virus and are traitors to humanity. They provide aid and comfort to the enemy, each one a refuge where the enemy can multiply exponentially, every host providing the opportunity for the enemy to get better at killing us. Then they help the enemy infiltrate the rest of the population. They garner no sympathy from me anymore. Just the vaccine is too good for them. If there were any justice, they’d rot in prison for their treason.
That wouldn't make sense though, since my post was in response to Async, and as pointed out that approach would hurt many people who aren't part of the problem.
Yeah, sorry. I'm really not making myself clear today. I was addressing the concept of "abhorrent" and the fact that I think we are likely going to have to accept a lot of things we currently call abhorrent, if humanity is going to survive this century.
"You’re" Something we should know now that the Israeli guy squawked? also pretty sure baboons aren't herd animals...
Oh, fuck off. It's always "other people" that are stupid herd animals while Lanzman is a cool cynical genius, just like it's always "other people" living off the government dime while Lanzman is providing a valuable and important service guaranteed by the constitution. Now say something stupid about asteroids.
My concern with that is that I learned today that my son isn't a candidate for the vaccine. Children under 16 years old aren't covered by the FDA's Emergency Use Authorization. Likewise, adults that have a history of allergic reactions that require them to carry epi-pens are forbidden from getting the vaccine. A friend of mine had an allergic reaction to a red wasp sting as a child and has carried an epi-pen ever since. He's never needed it or used it. But, he can't get the vaccine under the current FDA rules.
Yes, I have a few cases like that among loved ones too. But doctors tell me that the precautions really make sense. More testing needed for kids, and probably different vaccines needed for allergies. The way forward is to vaccinate everyone else as fast as we can, to protect these groups.
This is true. There are also a certain percentage of people for whom the vaccination simply doesn't "take". (That's why my suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, rather than an honest scientific analysis of the situation.) But the hope is that other vaccines might not have the same effects on those who have allergies. Right now, there is only one vaccine that has been approved in any Western countries, but there should be a second one soon and, hopefully, two or three more within a few months. For now, even those who are vaccinated must continue to observe the protocols (masks and social distancing) until about three-quarters of the population has been vaccinated and/or had the disease already. That won't mean it isn't still there or still dangerous, but it won't be spreading nearly as fast so the chances of becoming contaminated even if you aren't protected will be diminished. Here in France, the law requires everyone to have their vaccinations up to date in order to participate in organised youth activities (kids and staff). I consider it a virtual certainty that, for next summer, that will include Covid-19. As director, I will certainly require it anyway, even if the law doesn't.
And while the extent to which we habitually ignore the rest of the world in our news media drives me to distraction, there are no less than fifteen promising strands in development in China.
Huh. I had thought of Austrians as a sensible bunch. But there are a substantial portion of these people everywhere. Most of it is fairly soft (i.e. not actually committed to anti-vaxx nonsense) and will easily erode once the benefits of vaccination start to become obvious.
Unfortunately science only works so fast. You do not want to kill or permanently injure someone with allergies because you have not had time to make things safe for them. As much as it sucks, avoiding the virus is still an option if you isolate. The vaccine is coming for those people, but the medical community should be prepared for people at risk to bad reactions.
I originally tried to enlist in the 18X Program (Special Forces Recruit). It was a program where if you had a college degree you could go right into SF. You’d do Infantry OSUT, Airborne School, then a special 6 week course to prepare you for Selection after which you’d be thrown into a regular Selection class with all the real soldiers trying out. Anyway, at MEPS (that AF base up in Montgomery) they found a heart murmur. Can’t jump with a heart murmur. Can’t be SpecOps without jumping. There is 4 months of BS here where I pull strings and USASOC (who wants me hard: decent shape, decent intelligence, BS of Int. Poli-Econ focus on Middle East, sharpshooter... they want me real bad) v TRADOC and eventually I have to just go 11X with USASOC saying as soon as I’m in a unit and under FORSCOM and TRADOC can fuck the the fuck off to put my packet in and I’m in the next Selection class... Fuck I’m high. And I should go to bed. But I’m gonna put another can of Beanee Weenees on and finish this thought. Okay. So anyways get sent to Lewis to stand up 5th Brigade (was 3rd squad [leader! As an E4 fresh out of Basic!] of the 1st Platoon of the first Company of the first Battalion of what would be 5th Bde). So yeah, pretty quickly someone from 3rd Bde came by asking for volunteers to be replacements. We did the ‘everyone close your eyes, anyone who wants to go step forward, everyone else about face and dismissed’ volunteer thing. I went off to Iraq. Got to be friends with my Doc. When we got back I slipped him a Benji and my records got fixed and ‘What heart murmur?’ this dude was off to SWCS and the Promised Land. All that to say: ‘What epi-pen?’.
