Are you still an Orthodox Jew? If so, go fuck yourself.

I'm shocked! Shocked, I say, to discover a religious organization has been covering up rape.

I didn't expect @Tuckerfan to be anti-simeitic.

I'm not "anti-simeitic" (whatever that means), nor am I anti-Semitic. I'm opposed to all religions, Judaism, and being Jewish, are a religion, not an ethnicity. "Semitic" is a term used to describe folks who inhabit a particular part of the Mid-East, they can be either Jewish, Muslim, or other religion. The thread title's also keeping in line with just about all the other titles for threads describing abuse covered up by religious organizations. One really shouldn't give special dispensation to one simply because of their religion. That'd be discriminatory, don't you think?

Jewish people are also an ethnic group and you're painting them all with the same wide brush. Also it was a typo, you don't have to be a condescending prick. Maybe change the thread title to be more accurate.

No, Jewish people aren't an ethnic group, though they're commonly thought of as being such. Just as most people think of all Muslims being Middle Eastern, even though they're not.

Made on a device that's almost certainly got a built-in spell checker, so you should have caught the error. If you're trying to play "gotcha" with someone, it helps when you don't make a silly mistake.

Woud you prefer "Are you still Ultra-Orthodox? If so, go fuck yourself"? Any organization, religious or secular, that demands (as certainly, all religions do) unquestioning loyalty to those at the top is undoubtedly riddled with the same kinds of abuse and cover-ups.

Also, given that you once thought it'd be a good idea to change your avatar to a Swastika, I don't think you've got any room to lecture folks about such matters.

I have a feeling this thread is going to result in at least one person getting banned and labeled "Cunt." Wonder who it'll be?

Speaking of which, how much would it cost me to get a user of my choosing banned and cunted?

I thought a more appropriate title would have been "Are you still Orthodox? If so, go fuck yourself"?but whatever.

Sounds like a drug that makes all of your cells take a shit.

One, the particular group is Ultra-Orthodox, and there's a big difference. Even your run-of-the-mill Jewish-practicing Israeli thinks that the Ultra-Orthodox Jews are fucking weird. Second, the term "Orthodox" can apply to Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox Christians. As well as Ethiopian Orthodox Christians, and probably a bunch of other religious folks that I don't know about.

Yes.

Eh, no. Catholicism and Mormonism are highly centralized, top-down hierarchies. Judaism as a whole is not, and hasn’t really been for at least 800 years. Certain sects, including the Haredi, are definitely more so, but as a whole, definitely not. There’s no authority in, say, Jerusalem, that can expel any rabbi, for instance.

That's nice.

And? Depending upon what sect of Islam might belong to, there's no central authority for them in the same way that there's no central authority for Judaism. The same is also true of Christianity when it comes to various sects. Are you going to tell me that Bubba's First Baptist Church should be treated differently than a Southern Baptist Church, when both are guilty of covering up abuse, simply because Bubba isn't directly accountable to the SBC? And we do know that the SBC has covered up abuse.

Again, when you have a belief system that says the folks in charge, and it doesn't matter if it is religious or secular, or if the leaders are strictly local, or are international, cannot be questioned, you're guaranteed to have a system that not only allows for abuse but also encourages a cover-up. Lots of folks here were perfectly happy to demand that El Chup condemn terrorist attacks committed by Muslims and then got butthurt when asked to do the same because someone who shared some of their political views also did a terrorist attack. Let's take it a bit further. I think that we can all agree nobody here actually invaded the Capitol on 1/6, but at least some of us can agree that some of the folks here did support the views of those who did so. And that they've continued to do so. They might not be as guilty as those who stormed the Capitol, but they do share some of the blame if they've not revised their views about the threat to our democracy Trump has posed in the days since.

Federal Farmer's actually right on this. @El Chup was very blatantly called himself and atheist Jew for this reason and he's not the only person i've seen do this.

That said, out of all the major religions in the US, Judaism in general has a better than usual batting average of trying to practice what the preach ( for lack of a better term, as as Judaism forbids proselytizing and recruitment to convert) and I I routinely see faith leaders call out shit like this online moreso than Christians. Orthodox Judaism is...well, orthodox and that part of the religion can go fuck themselves, but I do see people trying to unfuck that religion, at least.

El Chup wasn't Jewish.

Eh, not what from what I've been able to see. I'm not going to say that they're worse, but when you hear the stories from the folks who've escaped from the most extreme sects of Judaism, you realize there's a whole lot of ugly shit no one's doing anything about. It's sort of like the Amish and the Mennonites. Lots of folks are prepared to say that while they don't support the beliefs of those groups, they seem to be sincere individuals who honestly try to practice a faith that doesn't harm anyone. It's only when you listen to folks who've left the faiths, or have done deep investigations into them that you realize they're engaged in things like animal cruelty ("debarking" dogs, for example) and child rape/incest and that anyone who attempts to raise alarm about such things is automatically ostracized that you begin to realize that they're not the quaint folks people perceive them to be.

All of this.

And all of this too.

The shitbaggery of the Ultra-Orthodox is about as connected to mainline Judaism as the Branch Davidians are to, say, Episcopalians.

Wow, what a terrible thread title!

Imagine of the Pope had said the same thing to catholics that these orthodox jews are saying to their isolated communities. Oh wait, we do not have to imagine, the catholic and christian churches have repeatedly come out to protect the image of their guilty priests and demonized children who have come out against their powerful. This is the worst of the worst done by a religion because the orthodox jews live segregated lives. These are not some jewish kids you see around. These are kids who live in a segregated community, at schools where only the religious authorities work, and in communities where if you were to speak against your parents and elders you would be cast out of your eartly community and out of your afterlife. It is the same as any cult.

You do not just go up to hacidic children and talk to them. They have religious guardians around them in public who are polite enough, but will cut you off because only they know how to talk to the children. These are not bad people, but their community would be weak against child molestation because of how they protect their religious authorities, and how speaking of abuses would be speaking against your whole community as a child. Just like christian children get in trouble for making these claims against a pastor, so would a hacidic child be a villain to the community for making claims against a rabbi.

This is not anti-semetic, but rather a statement of how society works.

No, but you should still treat them separately. And separate still from Joe Blow’s 2nd Baptist Church which doesn’t have a pedo problem. Not all Catholic priests are pedos, but they’re still management in the organization - THE Catholic Church - that covers up for pedos. Their parishioners still monetarily support them. Fair game. Ditto Mormonism (except the FLDS, but they’re also bad). That’s not the case with other Jewish sects vs Haredi, or SBC vs Bubba vs Joe Blow, despite having the same scriptures. I’d have this same objection to “Still Christian,” “Still Baptist”, “Still Muslim,” and others, but not, for instance, “Still Eastern Orthodox” (assuming they’re also covering up for pedos, which is possible, though I personally haven’t heard of it) or “Still SBC”. “Jewish” is likewise too broad a brush. “Catholic” is narrow, just numerous.

You don’t know shit about mainline Judaism. You can question anyone up to and including God, and it’s not just accepted, it’s almost expected. It’s practically the religion’s pastime.

Nice bait and switch. It’s not the views (absent the views themselves being abhorrent, but I don’t think there’s any religions that practice pedophilia on scriptural grounds, and any that do, well sure, that’s fine to excoriate them as a whole), it’s the organization and the participation therein that warrants the “If you’re still X, fuck you”. I’m certain there are atheists who are pedophiles, but I’m not starting “If you’re still an atheist, fuck you” threads.

I am seriously asking here, does the orthodox jewish system really allow for questioning of revered authority by children? I have actually had some experience with hacidic jewish groups. The owner of the paintball field I worked at was important in the NY jewish community and would schedule for hacidic children to come play. I was one of the refs who was trusted and professional enough to be assigned to the groups when they came. Because of this I was informed that it was considered inapropriate for me to directly address the children unless their physical safety was immediately in danger. I did ask some questions of him and their "councelors" during the time they were there. I did not delve deeply, but it did seem like the people in charge were refered and as unsupervised as any more orthodox religious person I had seen.

I have also worked with other orthodox jewish owned companies, and there is this bubble that resembles a lot of cults where only certain people are allowed to speak regarding the religious hierarchy and meanings of it. These shadowed areas of power are the places child molesters seek out. There is the supposed power and structure of the religion, and then there is the power and reverence the practitioners give to the authorities. I have studied cults and one of the most dangerous practices is that the followers are taught to tell regular society one thing while practicing something completely different. Often the leadership tells the people to say that they are humble men who anyone can challenge, but when you are inside of a cult bubble challenging those people becomes challenging the entire cult and will lead to being outcast or suffering severe punishment and re-education for re-admittance back into the circle. This is where children are much more vulnerable than adults.

To say that this form of authority does not occur in the minds of children when their entire family and community follow the orthodox teachings of the religious authorities is wrong, incorrect, and dayton levels of stupid. An adult may be able to understand such a nuanced thing, and most don't, but a child is going to see the situation as these religious authorities being much more powerful than their parents in the community, and you cannot say that children would understand you could question a rabbi without suffering consequences in a jewish orthodox community that is their entire world view.

Hasidic is a subset of Haredi, so this doesn’t invalidate my point at all.

You should walk away from this one dude.

Try walking through 1930's Berlin, say "Oh it's ok, I'm not practicing" and see how it turns out for you.

Still overly broad, but better.

I fully expected Tucker to hate Jews. It fits in with his fascistic tendencies in virtually all other spheres.

And it's shocking that he'd show his hand so blatantly when he could have hidden it as anger against rape. But his title made no mention of rape... because he just likes that he has something to peg the jews with .

Remember when Storm used to call Cassandra a Nazi to cover his ass?
I 'member.

Didn't know your...

You know what, I won't bring up non-board member relatives who can't confirm or rebutt my trolling.

You almost had it, then you set yourself up by mentioning pegging out of nowhere, as if it was on your mind.

It's interesting how, across all these threads about religious orders covering up for sexual abuse and other crimes, the common denominator is the religious order's conservatism.

Eh, kids are more likely to be sexually abused at public schools.

[Needs citation]

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but you need to back that fucking claim up.