Arizona cop kills man armed... with a baby.

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/189732/44/Man-shot-to-death-while-holding-baby

Three things:
1. This cop has had 7 shootings in 10 years, 6 of them fatal? That seems extremely high.

2. There is no mistaking a baby for a weapon.

3. Who cares if they found weapons in his house? That's not a crime. That is completely irrelevant spin being put out just to try and help this thug with a badge cover up his crime.

This mother fucker better face some charges.

Gee, really?

Pretty sure both of those things are perfectly legal in the US. I mean, did they at least try to establish any kind of malicious intent? Did they even warn the guy before they pegged him in the head?

Yeah, I think they better take another look at those to see if something might not have been covered up by the blue wall of bullshit.

Scottsdale sucks. The guy was probably on meth.

The baby might have been fitted with explosives.

Okay.... again incompetent media and someone who just knee jerks because a cop is involved.....

John Loxas, the guy whose dead, was going around to his neighbors with the baby and a GUN and threatening them with said gun. Neighbors called police. At some point before police showed up Loxas went into his house and put the gun down. The police showed up and told him to come out. He came out holding the baby.

Now one thing they teach law enforcement (Corrections or Police) is too always watch the hands. If you can't see the hands then that means you've got a problem as the person is hiding something. Usually that something is a weapon. In this case the police have been told by dispatch that he's got a gun and they can't see one of his hands.

Loxas is not cooperating with the police. Then as he moves to go back inside the officer sees the hidden hand and sees an object in it. Turns out to be a cell phone IIRC, but it's dark and the officer can't see it clearly and the officer fires thinking Loxas has a gun and is making a move to attack either the kid he's holding or the officers.

Do you know what they found a few feet from Loxas body? The handgun that he was threatening people with and a loaded shotgun.

As for the officer: He was on the SWAT team. SWAT is called out to handle situations that the regular street officers can't. Usually barricaded people and hostage situations. It's a given that someone on SWAT is more likely to be involved in shootings then your average street officer.

All seven of his previous shootings were investigated by his departments internal affairs unit and the county prosecutor. All were found to be justified.

I got all of that doing a simple Google search of the name John Loxas instead of relying on a half-assed news report written by some moron who couldn't even get some basic facts straight such as the police were told the guy had a gun and was threatening his neighbors with the gun.

nm

"Shot or killed?"

Or, it coulda been that creepy baby from the E-Trade ads.

In which case the officer hit the wrong target.

The police were called to the house... there is no disputing that something out of the ordinary was going on there that night. And yet we still have 4 facts that cannot be ignored.

1) He was holding a baby.

2) We have an officer with a long history of shootings.

3) He was only 18 feet away from the victim. Even at night that is close enough to distinguish a baby from a weapon, especially with porch lights, house lights, and police lights shining on him. Oh ya with all the commotion going on I imagine the baby was crying, but that is just speculation.

4) He TURNED to go back into the house... he was not even facing the officers when he was shot. There was no threat of imminent danger.

This is a trigger happy cop. End of story. The question bolded in shooter's post is legitimate. Does this cop have more shootings/kills in the last 10 years than any other cop in America?

OK, the guy, has a record, has been reported making armed threats, is holding a baby - potential hostage, and does not comply with an order from police officers.

Do you err on the side of the baby or the perp?

Given that police were told he was threatening his neighbors with a gun we could safely assume that the baby is also a potential hostage.

An officer whose previous duties included being on a SWAT team. An officer who was cleared in all previous shootings of which no doubt other SWAT officers were also part of one or more of those previous shootings.

You're not to bright.

Let me try to explain it to you again:

#1 Man is holding baby in one arm.

#2 Second arm is not. Hand on second arm is hidden from officers view.

#3 Officers are taught that if you can't see the hands that indicates a large possibility that the subject is hiding a something or is hiding a weapon. Officers are taught that not seeing the hands is very dangerous to the health of the officers.

#4 It doesn't matter what lights are on and quite frankly you're talking out of your ass trying to tell us all these lights were on. Were you there? You don't know. If the officer regardless of light levels can't see one of both hands then please read #3 again.

#5 The man made a move to go back inside. As he was turning he exposed the second hand. The officer saw an object. The officer thought it was a weapon. The officer thought the baby, himself or the other officers would be in mortal jeopardy so the officer fired. Remember these officers are dealing with a hostile subject that had just minutes before they arrived been threatening his neighbors with a loaded firearm. Remember they can't see one of his hands and he's hostile to them.

#6 Just feet from where the guy dropped was the loaded gun and a loaded shotgun. What do you think the guy would have done? He's threatening his neighbors with a gun, he's being hostile towards the police and he has a potential hostage that he's holding. Would he invite the officers in for a beer or is he more likely to grab one of those guns and point it or shoot it at the officers?

Again you're not there. You don't see what the officers saw. You don't have to be facing officers to be a threat. You've got a hostile man with a gun call with a hidden hand who makes a sudden move. If you don't shoot and you're wrong then either that baby is now dead or you're dead or one of your fellow officers is dead.

Doesn't matter.

If all the shootings are justified he can have ten thousand and still be in the right.

Each of his involvements in shootings was investigated and determined to be legitimate and legal uses of deadly force.

Oh and before anyone tries it.....

Obviously the guy had mental issues. But when you've been told he's got a gun and has been threatening people with the gun that is not the time to play Officer Psychiatrist and try to talk to him about his feelings.

And again this applies not just to officers but civilians too: If you are in a hostile situation and you can't see one or both of the other persons hands you'd better be operating under the assumption that the other person has a knife or a gun in that hidden hand. Put some distance between yourself and him and get ready. If you are too close when that hand comes out you're going to get stabbed or shot and no you all can't come here and claim you could block it. It's already been shown that no matter how fast you are you will get hit.

Standard scumbag cop reaction.

This wasn't Lon Horiuchi again was it?

Does he have a record? I wonder how it compares with the officer's record? Has this guy killed 6 people in the last 10 years?

He was unarmed, they could have rushed him, tased him, at least waited for him to trade the baby for the gun… in fact most of them did, only officer deadly force decided to open fire.

It matters who is clearing him. Fuck the lying blue shield. Sometimes the numbers don't lie. I don't trust the police any more than I trust the government.

yeah you need to stop being a douchebag as not all situations that involve cops are wrong and so far without any other evidence to indicate otherwise this guy died because he was a dumbass and failed to listen to the cops instructions.

Don't want to get shot by cops?

Don't threaten your neighbors with a gun.

Don't argue with police officers.

Don't make any sudden movements when police officers are around.

How bout you get off your knees and take the pig dick out of your mouth for a change and quit defending a guy just because he's a cop for once.

By your own admission, though I've no idea where you got the number, the cops were 18 feet away. The guy could have been in his house and his hand on the gun aiming before the police made it to the door. Then what? You'd be bitching about how the cops shouldn't have rushed him.

And how are they going to taser him while he's holding a baby? Are you fucking stupid?

And trade the baby for the gun? You only need one hand to pick up a handgun.

And the one officer opened fire because he had a clean shot while the others obviously didn't.

I don't defend cops who don't deserve it you piece of sorry ass shit excuse for a man.

However nothing indicates that in this case the officer did anything illegal or wrong.

The problem here is you automatically assume the officer is guilty of murder simply because he's an officer and not because any evidence points to it. You can't even be bothered to gather some simple facts.

Well since it's all a matter of public record why don't you go to that city and get all the records of the investigations concerning the previous shootings.

You know the ones done by his department and by the District Attorney that in all cases after reviewing the shooting incidents determined he was justified.

I'm sure you're so much fucking smarter and way more fucking ethical then those two groups.

Yes sir! Thank you sir! I won't argue because I don't want to get shot sir! What kind of stupid fucking logic is that? Just because someone has a badge doesn't mean they're always right. Respect is earned even if you're in a uniform.

I'm not going to play your little game of implying I'm saying the victim did no wrong here. I'll just keep stating the facts.

A cop with a long kill list shot a man holding a baby while the man had his back turned. There were other alternatives. If you can't see that then you shouldn't be in any job where you carry a weapon.

As for your talking down to me about my 18 feet a night comment in the earlier post; answer me this: Which one of us has actually been in a combat situation in an urban environment at night? Ya that's right, me, I think I understand when to exercise discretion with a firearm in a pretty high pressure situation.

Oh ok, now I'm a sorry excuse for a man? A piece of shit? Since you can't seem to keep from making this personal I guess turn about is fair play. What the fuck have you ever done of any importance. You're prison guard, right? Not even a real cop? Way to go, chief. What does that say about you that your career choice is to go to prison voluntarily?

I'd start rattling off my list of accomplishments but what is the point? I could be a janitor and offer a more meaningful contribution to society than you. I contributed more by the time I was 23 then you have in your whole life. And now I'm contributing more tax dollars because I chose a career that requires a brain.

What part of the guy was making threats with an actual gun towards people when the cops showed up are you not understanding?

If cops show up because you're the troublemaker they've been called about and they've been told you've got a gun then no you don't fucking argue with them and make sudden movements if you don't want to get shot.

The mans back wasn't turned. He was turning and he was shot in the side of the head because he exposed a hidden hand that had an object in it. The officer, being told this man had a gun on him and then the man arguing with him while refusing to show his hidden hand had a reasonable fear that that object was a gun and the child, himself, or the other officers were in danger of being shot at. So he took the shot.

And no there weren't other alternatives except one. Allow the man to go inside and grab his handgun or shotgun and create a hostage situation where a 9 month old baby is the hostage.

You don't understand shit about policing. It's 180 degrees different then combat patrols. If you tried your military tactics as a police officer you'd be shit canned and jailed before your first year was out.

You're just a fucking shitbag whose decided that anyone with a badge is guilty simply because they have a badge. Well fuck you.

Oh yeah you're impressive......

But that doesn't stop you from being a shitbag cop hater.

You're correct, I do hate shitbag cops.

I hate shitbag cops. They stop you going into rock concerts and say, "Hey, kid, what kinda shit you got in that bag?"

Bastards!

If I may be a voice of reason in this thread (mark this date on your calender):

I'm not police or modern military trained. I'm just a reenactor and a civilian with a carry permit. I've never drawn my weapon, but I have been ready to once and that was just a few weeks ago. I was at Wal Mart one night after dark and some hoodlum approached me in the parking lot bumming gas money. They've had a few purse and wallet snatchings there, so I told the guy I didn't have any cash as I backed up couple of steps and reached back and took hold of my 9mm. I think the guy saw what I was doing and went on his way.

What the hell was he doing at Wal Mart at 9 PM if he didn't have gas money?

The cop may have 7 shoots, but maybe they were justified. He was on the SWAT team in an urban area. This was in Scottsdale, AZ and they do have a lot of border problems down there. Shit used to not happen where I live. Now shit happens all the time. Like Rooster Cogburn said, "You can't serve papers on a rat...You either gotta kill 'im or leave 'im be." Sometimes I wish the cops here would take out some of the trash so shit don't happen around here.

Tex, you are a trained and experienced combat soldier. Zombie, you are a trained and experienced corrections officer. You both are capable of bringing some valid points to this debate.

If a cop draws down on me, I'm going to keep my hands where he can see them. Undercover cops get shot all the time.

In this case, the smart thing for Loxas to do was put the kid down and keep his hands where the cops could see them. He had been reported as being armed and threatening. Like I said above, I'd err on the side of the kid, not the perp. And he did have a handgun and shotgun just inside the residence. He was not in a good situation to be screwing around.