bystander intervention training?

Yes, that should be "cell phone" you got me.
On topic, give me a broom/mop handle and I'd take my chances. Perfect for keeping a knife wielding attacker away from you. When it comes to knives it appears that the attacker in the capitol incident had a knife. Two cops had guns. The attacker an a cop are dead, another cop is in critical condition. Anyone who says they're not afraid of a knife is either an idiot, a liar or a lying idiot.

I didn't want to "get you" - I figured maybe you have some kind of "auto correct" or something on your phone, computer, or whatever. Yes a broom or mop is a great weapon.
Yes knives are no joke. I think I mentioned this before but I know people who've been shot (duh, considering my occupation) and a couple who have been stabbed.
No thanks to being stabbed/cut.

Some reading matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Good article! This stood out to me concerning the subway car incident:

"Ambiguity is one factor that affects whether or not a person assists another in need. In some cases of high ambiguity, it can take a person or group up to five times as long before taking action than in cases of low ambiguity. In these cases, bystanders determine their own safety before proceeding. Bystanders are more likely to intervene in low ambiguity, insignificant consequence situations than in high ambiguity, significant consequence situations."

There was little ambiguity here. And the threat level to bystanders was established already: if the aggressor had a weapon he would likely have displayed it already, for example if he was trying to rob the subway rider(s). It was very cut-and-dried IMHO.

Yes the Kitty Genovese story is a well known example of evil prospering while good men do nothing (paraphrasing). That aside, humans are a fucked up species in general.

Yes we are.

Kitty Genovese died surrounded by people who tried to help her. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

It is not inaccurate that people will stand around. Also the experiments afterwards should have tried to reduce any confirmation bias in their methods. It may be the person it is named for might not be a great example of the effect, but that the effect itself exists.

From a purely opinion standpoint I can see the reasoning having been in situations like that. I am not a doctor, police officer, or emergency responder so as a bystander I want to inform the people who can help, and stay out of the way of people who may be around who have more experience. I do not have any special skills except for possibly moving the general public out of the way. I have been known to make a hole in a crowd if I see the need because something about me can do that when others are having trouble getting through. Aside from that I would probably be an obstacle and I am more interested in getting out of the way of anyone to assist. I do not even want to look capable of assisting because that might relieve someone of feeling responsible to use their own skills when they are probably better than mine.

So it's an urban legend! Thanks for that link - I had always read about the incident in old books - thanks for clearing that up!

I see your point and agree, but assisting in an "after the fact" medical situation is different. If you don't have expertise, sometimes you can get in the way. But pulling an unarmed aggressor off a totally defenseless victim should be instinct, or maybe a "mind set" if you will. But sadly some people have that mindset, and some people don't.

A perforated intestine is very survivable.

did you just get that from inside a fortune cookie? If so, it's about time Panda Express stepped up their game. That said yes a perforated intestine is survivable but you better hope that's all you end with.
A perforated major artery is a game changer.

No it's not an urban myth, the questions lie in the details, not the broad strokes.

The figure of 38 witnesses has been brought into question, as has the commonly repeated claim that none called the police.

What is true, however, is that none actively intervened and even if calls were made to the police it was only by a minority. By that assessment the scenario pretty much parallels the video we saw of the man being assaulted on the train.

I have a suggestion, but OF may not like it. Let black folk train us in bystander intervention. Of course, a lot more cops would get caught in their bullshit, but these guys/gals (I see more gals in the vid, damn!) don't fuck around - see here. Apparently a full-of-himself-or-full-of-something fairground operator had been fighting with his co-workers that night, and then when he gave a black woman getting off the ride shit and she WTF'd him for it, he hit her... knocking her small child to the floor in the process.

It is at most a couple of seconds before the asshole is dogpiled by the (as far as I can see, entirely black, but props to anyone else who got involved) crowd.



Of course, the issue there is that a minority can't always count on strength in numbers. So my real suggestion is we start treating folk like we're all one community AND getting pissed off when someone hurts our community.

I hate carnies.

is it the small hands or smelling like cabbage that upsets you?

I was asked to join the "emergency response team" at work today. I think I'll show up to the first meeting with a cast iron mace and a jar of medical leeches.

I think I might hesitate because I don't know if the one getting whaled on had it coming.

I think you will make an excellent member of the ERT. Congrats on the honor of being asked.

Slight, but funny tangent...., about a hundred years ago, due to changing from contractor to employee, I moved from one cubicle to another. The previous occupant of the cubicle to which I was moving, had been a member of the ERT. They all had caps and a flashlight with a bright orange cone over the light part so they were easily identifiable in an emergency situation. At that point, I had no previous knowledge of ERTs. So I yelled over the cube wall to my new boss “why is there a lightsaber in my cube?” After about two full minutes new boss starts laughing as he realized what I was talking about.

"why is there a lightsaber in my cube?"

That's what SHE said!

Exactly!