Carbon Cap & Trade

The Carbon Cap & Trade Bill will virtually eliminate my community if it passes.

Lion Oil which operates the oil refinery in El Dorado, Arkansas (the county seat of Union County with just over 20,000 people) has announced that if the Carbon Cap & Trade Bill currently before Congress passes it will have to shut down the refinery (Arkansas's largest) within a year.

The refinery employs some 1,200 people in the area. Which by my calculations, makes up more than 10% of the workforce and the most highly paid part of the workforce.

This would be a staggering blow to this area which has suffered a great deal job wise in recent years.

And I'm sure that my community is not alone.

 

What do jobs and a functioning economy matter when stacked up against politicized, hidden-agenda machinations of self-proclaimed "environmentalists"?

 

Well, don't anyone go out and start another, cleaner, environmentally safer business. It's not like you have a year to gear up or it.

 

Good.

 

Since the businesses are operating at present on the basis of getting something for nothing (by polluting public air), I'd say that even under the rationale of a consistent capitalist, they need to adapt or die.

 

Great, but that goes for the employees, too. The same people calling for the environmental policies that kill places like that should not be writing checks for the collective to cash by way of promoting social safety nets.

 

Really.

Suggestions?

And I"m wondering how anyone expects the U.S. economy to run if our refineries are regulated out of existence.

 

Actually, I do. Not too years ago a company called Deluxe was in the business of reproducing and mass distributing movies on DVDs in Little Rock. My husband, amongst others, went down there several times in an attempt to get that division ... 'up to snuff'.

In the end, the unit couldn't pull itself together and ended up closing.

Might be the workers prefer to work in dank, oily warehouses, I don't know.

 

They could run on the hot air you spew.

 

Amazing.

Two complete bastards in this thread who would prefer to have a community die and thousands of people suffer all because they do not like ONE DAMN PERSON!

Typical liberal hatred it seems.

 

liberal?

 

What?

I just gave you a suggestion.

I didn't say I'd like to see the people suffer.

Nice deflection and projection.

Typical conservative lies it seems.

 

Stop polluting the environment or go out of business?

Sounds like a reasonable ultimatum to me.

Do I dare ask, what is this hidden agenda you speak of?

 

I wasn't referring to you.

 

Every journey begins with the first step.

 

Nerfing US industries so that emerging foreign economies (which are not subject to the same restrictions) have a chance to compete. That and the more mundane pandering to special interest groups to bank some reelection points, as the case may sometimes be.

 

It's always been urgent. Even pushing global warming aside, there are still millions of people living around urban-industrial centers that have to put up with polluted air and water, who develop respiratory problems, cancer, and other illnesses because of what plants like yours put into the ecosystem. The viability of businesses like yours comes on the backs of these people, which is why I have little sympathy.

Even Friedman advocated government control of "neighborhood effects"--pollutants in the air that everyone breathes is a prime example.

What interests do US politicians have in allowing foreign economies to compete? Give me a specific example.

 

Perhaps with less pollution, Dayton's community will become, on the whole, less stupid.

 

I hate pollution too but this cap and trade bullshit sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

 

I presume you were referring to me, then. I have no desire to see your community die or anyone suffer. I also have no desire to see it continue to pollute the air without paying for it. Now what?

 

I'm not suggesting that US politicians have a direct interest in anything but their own careers. And what I'm referring to is proposed international environmental treaties that hold 1st world western nation to standards not applied to the 3rd world. And no, they are not overtly proposed for the stated purpose of leveling the global "playing field."

 

Should polluters pay those whose property is affected by their operation?

Sure.

Is cap and trade anything more than a scam?

Absolutely not.

It's a scam, and not even a good one.

 

Your best bet would be to shut the fuck up about things you don't understand.

In all seriousness, oil is too important of a commodity, and imposing even MORE limitations on a already heavily regulated industry will do nothing but drive the price through the roof.

As such, I fully support this move by Congress. Make it happens you fucking morons! Drive oil/gas up to record levels. $145/bbl oil, and $5 gas won't even seem like much once this goes through.

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by all means. Educate me.

 

Your 'suggestion' doesn't work. You're not in the industry, so you have no idea what the fuck should happen. But you're still willing to shutdown refineries all over the US and take jobs away from thousands of people because you don't like pollution?

Oh well, don't come complaining when oil/gas are too expensive for you to buy and you have to resort to a horse and buggy, and a good ol' wood stove.

 

Who owns the air, and how do you think polluters should pay them for messing it up?

 

You are under the mistaken impression that I wouldn't welcom that.

 

There haven't been any refineries built in the US in 29 years, and every year during the summer, the existing refineries are seriously stretching their production to keep up with the demand. Yet, every year during the summer, the price of gas goes up.

Now imagine if some of these refineries were shut down due to some stupid law by the politicians in DC. The refinery Dayton is talking about is refining 70,000bpd. I'm sure there are a lot of similar refineries that will shut down as well. Imagine how THAT will effect supply/demand in the summer months.

Prices will shoot up even more.

Just the perfect thing to happen during a recession. A government law that forces people to shell out even more of their hard-earned money.

Like, I said....make it happen Washington, this greedy capitalist pig can't wait.

 

At least I'm not under the impression anymore that you're an ignorant fool. You just confirmed it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're a fool, than open your mouth and confirm it."