Did Ayn Rand's Not Having Children Affect Her Philosophy?

One of the tenets of Objectivism is "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." And at its root is the idea that I live for no man. My life is my own and I am not responsible for anyone else and noone has a right to demand that I support them.

Those of us with children or infirm parents know that the above absolutes aren't.

Not counting deadbeat dads, most parents do live somewhat for their children. I'm not talking about paying for the responsibilities (food, clothing, shelter, education), although I am certainly working to support those things, but rather the intangibles. I had an awful time in the Boy Scouts. But, The Boy loves scouting so one night each week and one weekend a month or so I go do Cub Scout stuff with him. I would rather have a root canal than watch The Girl play basketball, but she likes palying it so I go to her games and drive her to and from practice. I do these things out of love, and there is no reward for me in any sense. I have given up some of my life for their happiness.

And it really isn't restricted to parenting. The Wife loves chick flicks. I would rather chew shards of glass for two hours than watch the latest chick flick. I'll still watch them with her because she enjoys them.

Ayn Rand had no children and her marriage can only be described as one of loveless. I'm wondering how much of her philosophy is based on the fact that she went without living for others in that sense and knowing that love is the cause of suffering and yet still sticking with it.

 

I think her concept of self-importance and greed influenced her philosophy.

 

She'd been a 'tard even if she had kids, and that goes double for her idiot philosophy.

 

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much."
-----Gordon Gekko, Wall Street

 

Well, not being able to have children does indeed fuck with a person's head. You cannot help but think "why me". Society in general thinks there is something wrong with you. I been through this, so yes I am sure it helped shape her outlook on life.

 

Like all things, greed has a time and a place. It is not the absolute beneficiary that people have claimed it is.

 

Not having read any of Ayn Rand's books, yet having been accused of being her clone, I would think her philosophy would include the caveat that although those things are not 'forced' upon you, doing so out of desire is not out of the question.

Also, 'not supporting someone else' would not include family, but the next door neighbor's family instead.

IOW, the "I" includes family.

 

No, but I don't think greed in and of itself is a mortal sin either.

 

I think there's a lot to that. I think it is also important for her philosophy that her relation to her parents was crushed by the Russian revolution in 1917. She came from an extremely, extremely rich family, and she experienced having taken all of that away from her simultaneously with being forced towards self-reliance much earlier than most people are or any people should.

What I have found most striking about her philosophy is that although some of the terms and most of the economic stuff are changed, the basic epistemological and methodological concepts are straight from Lenin. It's almost as if she accepted the claims of those who proved themselves stronger than her parents, and then tried to regain her all-important property rights by proving them once more on her enemies' own grounds.

 

Societies excel where concepts of individualism and community are kept in balance. Rome, for example, believed in the noble endeavors, but one always kept his family. The State, Roma, was seen as the greatest use of a man's talents, not trade or military glory.

 

Competition is a fact of life. Greed is when you harm society for your own personal gain.

Again, there are degrees of which that are permissible.

 

In Rand's case, though, I think it was more a matter of not *wanting* kids. If she had had them, they would have been trophies that she handed off to a nanny the moment they were born. But as a completely selfish individual whose philosophy was to essentially make use of anyone and everyone around her, the idea of giving to a child would have been incomprehensible to her. It wouldn't surprise me if there were a string of abortions - illegal at the time, of course, but hardly "back alley" for Ms. Rand; I'm sure she had access to any number of high-end gynecologists with an after-hours practice - in her unwritten history.

 

The only book by her that I have read is anthem and I enjoyed it very much. Working in the corporate world with all the "team" bullshit going on for the past 15 years and all the quasi Leninist propaganda we are fed, and with the growing power of China,I can see it as one possible future.

 

Corporations are Leninist? Dude, you need to check your terminology...

 

Nope, Garamet, in the corporate world (for employees anyways) its all about the collective good and downplaying the importance of the individual. I swear some of the things they tell us seem straight out of the manifesto. It doesn't matter how good the individual does if the team does not meet the objectives, etc. Also, the mass punishment mindset is really strong in there too.

 

No, the corporate manifesto is "it's all about the shareholders." The only "collective good" they're concerned about is the size of the CEO's parachute.

The individual - i.e., any worker below the level of middle management - has never been more than an extension of the machinery.

That's called capitalism. It began with the Industrial Revolution.

 

Well, I can see that you cannot see this from the bottom up. yes at the top its all about the money, but its the collective mentality at the bottom that I am talking about. You can see where not giving a damn about the individual fits into both.

 

Honey, I've worked in or for corporate since 1967. Whatever label you put on it, it's all about who has the power.

 

While that does indeed suck, you can choose to have children in your life in ways that aren't biological. Adoption, fostering, even teaching. You can live for other people and the next generation without biological reproduction. She chose to move in that way philosophically, perhaps out of some of these issues, but also I think it was an admirable rationalization for selfishness.
There are those who don't have children but still lead selfless lives, sometimes they don't have children for that very reason.

 

I don't think Rand's philosophy in any way precludes self-sacrifice or charity or serving others. It merely says that a person must choose to do those things for themselves. Self-sacrifice isn't when it is forced, charity isn't when it is coerced, and serving others is slavery if it isn't voluntary.

 

And it wasn't in Soviet Russia?

When was the last time you had a team meeting to discuss key-point objectives?

(Happily I contract and avoid such nonsense.)

 

I work for a corporation and I haven't seen that. In fact, the company gives all kinds of 'bonuses' for an individual who has gone 'above and beyond' - regardless of what the rest of the team has or hasn't done.

 

Right, but having children (or a spouse, or infirm parents) requires a great deal of self sacrifice if it is to be done properly and it need not be voluntary.

I have sex and get a girl pregnant. She refuses to have an abortion. Whether or not I want any part of that child in my life, I'm now saddled with the responsibility of providing for that child. Granted, I had sex, but I didn't choose to have a child, especially since the power is in the hands of the woman. Is my having to work longer hours just to provide a child support payment really voluntary or is it forcing me to live for another when the state says, "or else"?

 

This is why every one should make better decisions before having sex with another person.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Greed isn't magical. It's an emotion. Saying greed will save us is as meaningless and empty as saying love will save us.

 

Of course. But EP seems to suggest that there's some sort of socialism behind corporate America.

Mercifully, I'm also an independent contractor, and have been since before that particular type of time-wasting meeting became de rigeur. (The last "all employees must attend" meeting I sat through was one about recognizing alcoholism in the workplace - essentially ratting out your co-workers - given by a guy who misspelled "alcoholism" three different ways in his "urgent" memo.)

Unfortunately, however, one of my freelance clients is a consultant who loves to natter on about "the corporation as rain forest," so I'm not spared the bullshit factor entirely.

 

Well, I applaud your company. At mine its everybody or nothing. no individual raises, no bonuses unless the team goals are met. For the salaried folks that is different but for hourly thats how it it.

 

But there were a helluva lot of people in the 80s who failed to realize that Gordon Gekko wasn't some sort of hero.

 

I don't think Gordon Gekko is a hero in any sense of the word, but I also don't think greed in and of itself is a bad thing. Greed is simply wanting more, and one can be greedy without being an asshole, just the same way someone can be altruistic and be a total prick at the same time.

Would Gordon have been seen as a bad guy if he was shown giving millions to AIDS charities in the mid-1980s? Or if the film showed his actions from the standpoint of the stockholders, who desperately needed someone to cut the deadwood from the companies he was "wrecking"? Stone just needed a bad guy and made Gordon Gekko out to be the asshole wrecking companies because he could.