Doctor Who 3x04: Daleks in Manhattan

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by matthunter, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    The pepperpots are back, and this time they're taking America by storm!

    1930s America, that is. New York, to be precise. Last seen making an "emergency temporal shift" (AKA legging it) at the end of Doomsday, the Cult of Skaro have survived and are masterminding a devious plot in the sewers of the Big Apple.

    Can the Doc and Martha, plus an assortment of dodgily-accented "Americans" put a stop to it?

    Reminder to Brits - the episode is on early tonight (6:35pm).
  2. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    i hate the title, it sounds like a 'muppets...' title, so i'm awaiting such future episodes as 'dalek treasure island' and 'dalek christmas carol'...

    the prospect of a future companion encountering a marooned and cheese-obsessed timelord whilst battling dalek pirates amuses me greatly.
  3. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Hmm... the accents weren't as bad as I feared (no doubt genuine Yanks will arrive to put me straight...), except Tallulah but then she's a Joisey Goil.

    Not bad. Lots of setup, but some interesting ideas - the Daleks revisiting the "Human Factor" concept of the Troughton era is a good touch.

    The Cult are certainly thinking outside the box (felt sorry for the one that had to give up its ass for the idea, literally) and the New York visuals were up to par (the CGI was less obvious, ironically, because I'm used to seeing the slightly overexposed shots of the city in CSI: NY!).

    The Doc seems to be gearing up for a more serious confrontation than Doomsday, when he came off a bit jokey with the Daleks. His "they always survive while I lose everything!" line was very bitter.

    Next week looks good too - flying Daleks picking off the homeless, no doubt certain TNZers would approve!
  4. Linda R.

    Linda R. Fresh Meat

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    Our American cousins will hate this ep with a passion. :diacanu:
    To me, it seemed a mildly left of centre retelling of the Depression. Most Americans will, undoubtedly, see it as rabidly Commie propaganda... :D


    And I still want to know what the fuck Ric Griffin is doing in 1930s Manhattan ;).
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  5. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Especially with Solomon's "redistribution of wealth" when he breaks the bread loaf in half and gives some to the thief and the rest back to the rightful owner. ;)
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  6. markb

    markb Dirty Bastard

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    Nothing the beeb broadcasts concerning a brit view of America surprises me.:)
  7. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Well, on the plus side (for you), Solomon is also a big fan of the Second Amendment.
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  8. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    it was enjoyable, although i'm not thrilled at the human/dalek hybrid - it removes the menace of the daleks, and there appears to be a bit of an effort to make them synpathetic baddies rather than pepperpot nazis.
  9. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    I dunno. Even the Nazis had reasons for doing what they did beyond blind hatred. Those reasons were no justification for the atrocities they committed, but they were there.

    In a similar manner, we see the Daleks faced with extinction and trying out oddball ideas to escape that fate. That's motivation, but it doesn't justify the experiments they're undertaking to do it. The Doctor is even more in danger of being extinct than they are, but he's not working on a human/Gallifreyan hybrid (though he bloody well should be - nightly - with Martha onboard!).

    Bad guys having a motive (as opposed to good people driven to desperate acts) should never make you sympathetic. You can bet the idea of peaceful coexistence with other races so that they weren't in danger of attack never crossed the Daleks' minds - they always set out to exploit and control others and - regardless of how desperate their situation might be - that removes any sympathy we have for them.
  10. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    the daleks have always had a reason for their actions, the kind of simple, primal reason that makes for an implacable enemy - they want the universe under dalek control, preferably with anything non-dalek being dead. its a desire born out of hate, but its that kind of reason that makes for for the best enemies, as you have something you're not going to be able to negotiate with, its fight against overwhelming odds or surrender.

    just look at what happened to the borg in trek when they turned from them a single-issue, virtually unstoppable enemy to a more 'humanized' enemy: they lost most of their chillingness and fear-factor.

    as for making them sympathetic, you have the dalek discussing skaro in an almost wistful way, which adds a 'awwww, poor widdle lonely daleks' factor rather than:

    human: why are you doing this?
    dalek: because we can, and it'll help us bend the universe to out will
    human: so, no higher reason? like trying to rebuild your species?
    dalek: nah. been a bit easier to kill everyone and dominate if we did, but hey, shit happens right?

    as a storyline, this could be really good with a different enemy, providing a complex and sympathetic opponent for the doctor, but it smacks of Mandatory Popular Baddie Episode Syndrome :shrug:
  11. K.

    K. Sober

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    Exactly. I wonder who and how they came up with that.

    "So, we have one of the most recognizable alien shapes in SF history; the pepperpot look is the hallmark of our whole series, and though nobody quite knows how and why it works so well, the design obviously hit on something cultural or anthropological that makes this the perfect trademark. Even its mere shadow on a sewer wall has a certain implausible cheesy gravitas.

    So obviously, we need to bring them back for season 3 again. What could we do with them this time? Oh, I know! Let's make them look human instead!"
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  12. Darkening

    Darkening Guest

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    [​IMG]
  13. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    last seen on peladon...
  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    Ok, so not "human" human, but forehead-alien-of-the-week human as opposed to Dr Who's eccentric Daleks.
  15. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Though anyone who seriously believes the Daleks will permanently change shape as a result of this is having a laugh.
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  16. K.

    K. Sober

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    Exactly. Which again undercuts any tension in the two-parter's cliffhanger.
  17. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    i think its likely we'll see the dalek hybrids again, it wouldn't be the first time theres been internecine fighting in dalekdom.
  18. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    I thought it was brilliant.

    I don't see the old "pepperpot" Daleks going away anytime soon. If anything, the Humano-Dalek Sec may become the new series version of Davros/Emperor Dalek.
  19. Reno Floyd

    Reno Floyd shameless bounder

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    Surprisingly excellent episode.
  20. PGT

    PGT Fuck the fuck off

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    Enjoyed this one.

    I have no fear that the human-Dalek experiment will fail and at least one of the remaining pepperpots will get away but I'm not looking forward to the second episode any the less for it.