Fuck you Canada! [Canada is on fire thread]

Tererune · Jun 13, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Oh, well. I guess you would know better, despite getting every detail wrong.

Click to expand...

Not that youir job does not require some skill, but it is a skill that most daytons can learn to do with a bit of training and practice to some decent degree of success without worry for the safety of product or defect. It is not rocket science which clearly any idiot with billions of dollars can attempt with disasterous results while the world tells them they are awesome for making really large fireworks.

Ancalagon · Jun 13, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

I do a lot of things, from configuring and operating a big CNC punch press, running hydraulic press brakes and insertion presses, LOTS of welding and a fair bit of powder coating, all of which I had to learn on the fly.

You, of course, leap to the assumption that allows you to douche out the hardest, as per usual.

Click to expand...

What.

The.

Fuck.

You are boasting about how there are families in this country riding around in cars with parts welded by a guy that ‘learned it all on the fly’?!?!?

I’m no lawyer but I’m pretty the entire legal department of your company would collectively shit themselves to such an extent that your headquarters building would be a HAZMAT Zone if they saw you brag about this.

Tuckerfan · Jun 13, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Are y'all burying the lede, here, or is this a different fire?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freebeacon.com/politics/burning-down-barriers/amp/

Click to expand...

Yeah, I story that ends with this image:

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the publication.

Oh, and this phrase, "grad-school ski bum" could fit a whole shitload of the kids of the wealthy and powerful. Except for maybe, the "grad school" part, as not all of them would have done that. But the number of them that would then try to get a job that involves real work (regardless of their qualifications), is pretty fucking small. And, trust me, those weren't green recruits they brought out there, who'd never seen a fire hose before. Those were folks who'd gone through training and at least had some idea that the shit was going to be hot and hard.

I ain't never fought a forest fire, but I've poured molten steel, so I have some idea of what they're going through. Doesn't matter if they're 100% incompetent, the fact that they were willing to stick it out long enough to where they found themselves in an uncontrollable situation says a lot about them. Reminds me of what my friends who've been to boot camp have said, "The drill instructors care as much about what you succeed at, as they do how hard you try." Even if you can't do something, but you show that you're willing to try as hard as you can is sometimes enough for them to pass you, even though you should have failed the test. Not because you did the thing, but that you showed you were willing to fully commit yourself to a task, no matter how impossible it might be. That's pretty important when you're dealing with life-and-death situations. You know, when you might have to ask someone to sacrifice their life in order to save other people.

Who do you want in that situation? Do you want a person who can easily sail through a tough situation that's carefully staged so the risk to them is minimized? Or do you want a person who treats climbing that wall with the same level of intensity of landing on the beaches at Normandy? Sure, they might never be able to haul their ass up that wall all the way, but they're going to keep at it until they're dead? In some situations, you're going to want to have one, in others, you'll want the other person.

But even if those women just walked into the job, without qualifications, without training, and were just as clueless as what to do in a forest fire as you or I might be. They applied for those jobs. They put up with people (rightly or wrongly) talking shit about them. You ever do that? I kinda did something like that when I worked at the foundry. Not only was I taking my life on the line when I suited up to pour metal, but because we made things for the military, car companies, and the medical industry, people's lives outside of the company hinged upon how well we did our jobs.

You're a welder, so you know what dealing with dangerous shit is like. For a variety of reasons, not too many people can do a job like that. It takes skill, it takes risk, and you know that no matter how careful you are, there's always a moment of luck involved with it at times. You might have done everything right, but because something else went wrong, you're now staring at a really shitty situation. One that could have been worse if something minor had gone just a bit differently. Right? How many people out there refuse to be a welder since they know that there's a chance they could get burned? I don't know. But it's certainly a non-zero number.

My first job in the metal working trades was as a grinder in the foundry. It was 2003, and it paid like $7/hr. Not only was that less than what I was making at my shitty temp job, but it was less than I made working in a warehouse a decade before driving a forklift. But I took it. Knowing that the pay was shit, the working conditions were shit, but I wanted to work in the metal trades and that was the only job I could find in the industry that would hire me without experience (despite the fact that I had 3+ years of trade school under my belt). So, I fucking did it. Not because I had some fantasy that they'd come to their senses and pay me a living wage, but because I knew that if I could survive there, then I'd have experience so I could find a better job.

And I don't know how one could evaluate my performance as a machinist, other than I try. Yes, there are objective ways to do that, but that's sort of neither here nor there since I don't have enough comparison data with other machinists to know exactly where I fall in the rankings. But you get the idea. Maybe I can't do exactly what someone wants, but I'm going to try to get as close to as what they want as I can. How do I stack up against someone who can do the same job as me, but only if it's under textbook-perfect conditions? I mean, dude, I've ran machines built in the early 1900s, using tooling and materials that weren't even a concept when those machines were built (or even when they last had a total rebuild which would have been sometime in the mid-20th Century), trying to hold tolerances that would have seemed impossible when those machines were built. I mean, who do you want? The guy who can do everything perfectly, provided it's exactly the way the textbook described it to them? Or someone who'll go up to a machine that's nearly 100 years old (which it was at the time), and try to use it in ways the designers could never have possibly imagined because even some of the most mundane shit we do today would have sounded like science fiction to them, and give it a go? Yeah, sure, maybe I'll produce nothing but scrap. But you've got unequivocal proof that not only is it impossible for me to do this, but that I'll still make an effort to accomplish the goal, even if I don't get the specific task done right. That's worth something, right?

I mean, maybe I can't machine something to the kind of exacting tolerances the other guy can. But if he only knows how to do it on a brand new Okuma with the latest software and tooling involved, what use is he to you if you don't have an Okuma? What if all you've got is a CNC Bridgeport mill from the late 90s running Windows 3.0? Depending upon which machine you're talking about, and what you're asking me to do with it, I could very well not know shit about it. But you know what? Not only do I know this, but I know that if it's possible to be done, I will try to figure it out. I may not accomplish it, I may not be able to do it without fucking up a lot of shit in the process, but I can try. And I know I can try because I've had to try to do all kinds of shitty things with next-to-nothing, and sometimes I've managed to pull it off. With spectacular results (both positive and negative). That ought to be worth something, right?

Now, suppose up until that moment, both the Okuma guy and I have coasted through life. Neither of us had trouble finding jobs, or even working hard at the jobs we've found. The fact that when both of us were approached with something like real work and we had different answers ought to mean something, right? Sure, maybe I am more likely to amputate all my limbs before I ever figure out how to do the job. But so what? Maybe I won't, and even if I do, you might be able to get something productive out of me while you search for someone more qualified to do the job. What are you going to do?

Okay, sure, perhaps they were the most unqualified fucks on the planet. So what? At least they tried. How many of us out there can say that we put our fucking lives at risk to save other human beings on the planet? I'm sure we've both been in the trades long enough where we've seen some shit. Might have just been, "Oh, fuck, if that had gone just a little bit wrong, people could have died," but it could also have been, "Oh, fuck. He's dead." And we've also seen guys take a look at the easiest shit imaginable and act like you're asking them to handle plutonium naked. It seems to me, that even if you assume these women were given a cakewalk all the way up, they still did more than most people. You know what heat's like. Shit gets hot enough, it doesn't matter how safe it is, it gets uncomfortable to be around. You're a welder, you work with hot stuff. You know the one thing that always stuck with me while I was pouring metal? "My own body is a danger to me, right now." All that heat, you've got sweat just pouring out your body like you're an Olympic athlete at the peak moment of their career and break a world record, and if that sweat hits the metal? It could kill ya. You have a steam explosion throwing bits of metal in the air, and then the guys holding the crucible dropping it, throwing even more metal in the air. Fucking nightmare. And because your body is trying to keep itself cool, it's dumping water as fast as it can.

Now, I don't know what kind of heat those women might have experienced prior to this. I do know that forest fires get hot enough to melt the aluminum blocks in cars (so, 1800F+). Not too many people are going to want to even to pretend to work at a job where they get exposed to the temps one might find in a kitchen. But one in which you might face 1800F+ temps? That number's going to be even smaller.

So, unless you can provide proof that these women were told that they were going to do nothing but photo ops, I'd say they belong on a slightly higher level than the majority of the population. Maybe not as high as you and I, since we're skilled at our jobs and all, but better than the person flipping the sign outside of the cellphone store when it comes to potential self-sacrifice.
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I'm not reading all that. If you have a specific question, get to the fucking point.
Click to expand...

Because you’re too cowardly to address the issues.

Tuckerfan · Jun 13, 2023

Ancalagon said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Spaceturkey said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Click to expand...

your mistake is presuming he has a skilled job rather than feeds a machine. If naught else over the last 20 years he's displayed no capacity for learning.
Click to expand...

I do a lot of things, from configuring and operating a big CNC punch press, running hydraulic press brakes and insertion presses, LOTS of welding and a fair bit of powder coating, all of which I had to learn on the fly.

You, of course, leap to the assumption that allows you to douche out the hardest, as per usual.

Click to expand...

What.

The.

Fuck.

You are boasting about how there are families in this country riding around in cars with parts welded by a guy that ‘learned it all on the fly’?!?!?

I’m no lawyer but I’m pretty the entire legal team of your company would collectively shit themselves if they saw you brag about this.
Click to expand...

Nah. That’s standard in all trades.

Spaceturkey · Jun 13, 2023

Ancalagon said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

I do a lot of things, from configuring and operating a big CNC punch press, running hydraulic press brakes and insertion presses, LOTS of welding and a fair bit of powder coating, all of which I had to learn on the fly.

You, of course, leap to the assumption that allows you to douche out the hardest, as per usual.

Click to expand...

What.

The.

Fuck.

You are boasting about how there are families in this country riding around in cars with parts welded by a guy that ‘learned it all on the fly’?!?!?

I’m no lawyer but I’m pretty the entire legal department of your company would collectively shit themselves to such an extent that your headquarters building would be a HAZMAT Zone if they saw you brag about this.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna presume for the sake of the company's liability he has an AWS cert? Either that or he's lying about the scope of what he does.

although it does serve to validate my point that he's not even one of the smarter monkeys to do that sort of job. I mean, zero training?

hell, when I was 19 I had a job grinding plastic.

In three months I was learning how to maintain and repair the machines, but nobody was stupid enough to just say "hey kid, open up that machine and change the blades" without supervising me at first.

Bickendan · Jun 13, 2023

"Hey kid, open up that machine and change the blades!"
"But it's still running!"
"Figure it out or yer fired!"

Spaceturkey · Jun 13, 2023

Bickendan said: ↑

"Hey kid, open up that machine and change the blades!"
"But it's still running!"
"Figure it out or yer fired!"
Click to expand...

one of these babies, just 40+ years ago version

we'd lean right in there, pushing shit down.

Jenee · Jun 14, 2023

Spaceturkey said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Are y'all burying the lede, here, or is this a different fire?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freebeacon.com/politics/burning-down-barriers/amp/

Click to expand...

Yeah, I story that ends with this image:

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the publication.

Oh, and this phrase, "grad-school ski bum" could fit a whole shitload of the kids of the wealthy and powerful. Except for maybe, the "grad school" part, as not all of them would have done that. But the number of them that would then try to get a job that involves real work (regardless of their qualifications), is pretty fucking small. And, trust me, those weren't green recruits they brought out there, who'd never seen a fire hose before. Those were folks who'd gone through training and at least had some idea that the shit was going to be hot and hard.

I ain't never fought a forest fire, but I've poured molten steel, so I have some idea of what they're going through. Doesn't matter if they're 100% incompetent, the fact that they were willing to stick it out long enough to where they found themselves in an uncontrollable situation says a lot about them. Reminds me of what my friends who've been to boot camp have said, "The drill instructors care as much about what you succeed at, as they do how hard you try." Even if you can't do something, but you show that you're willing to try as hard as you can is sometimes enough for them to pass you, even though you should have failed the test. Not because you did the thing, but that you showed you were willing to fully commit yourself to a task, no matter how impossible it might be. That's pretty important when you're dealing with life-and-death situations. You know, when you might have to ask someone to sacrifice their life in order to save other people.

Who do you want in that situation? Do you want a person who can easily sail through a tough situation that's carefully staged so the risk to them is minimized? Or do you want a person who treats climbing that wall with the same level of intensity of landing on the beaches at Normandy? Sure, they might never be able to haul their ass up that wall all the way, but they're going to keep at it until they're dead? In some situations, you're going to want to have one, in others, you'll want the other person.

But even if those women just walked into the job, without qualifications, without training, and were just as clueless as what to do in a forest fire as you or I might be. They applied for those jobs. They put up with people (rightly or wrongly) talking shit about them. You ever do that? I kinda did something like that when I worked at the foundry. Not only was I taking my life on the line when I suited up to pour metal, but because we made things for the military, car companies, and the medical industry, people's lives outside of the company hinged upon how well we did our jobs.

You're a welder, so you know what dealing with dangerous shit is like. For a variety of reasons, not too many people can do a job like that. It takes skill, it takes risk, and you know that no matter how careful you are, there's always a moment of luck involved with it at times. You might have done everything right, but because something else went wrong, you're now staring at a really shitty situation. One that could have been worse if something minor had gone just a bit differently. Right? How many people out there refuse to be a welder since they know that there's a chance they could get burned? I don't know. But it's certainly a non-zero number.

My first job in the metal working trades was as a grinder in the foundry. It was 2003, and it paid like $7/hr. Not only was that less than what I was making at my shitty temp job, but it was less than I made working in a warehouse a decade before driving a forklift. But I took it. Knowing that the pay was shit, the working conditions were shit, but I wanted to work in the metal trades and that was the only job I could find in the industry that would hire me without experience (despite the fact that I had 3+ years of trade school under my belt). So, I fucking did it. Not because I had some fantasy that they'd come to their senses and pay me a living wage, but because I knew that if I could survive there, then I'd have experience so I could find a better job.

And I don't know how one could evaluate my performance as a machinist, other than I try. Yes, there are objective ways to do that, but that's sort of neither here nor there since I don't have enough comparison data with other machinists to know exactly where I fall in the rankings. But you get the idea. Maybe I can't do exactly what someone wants, but I'm going to try to get as close to as what they want as I can. How do I stack up against someone who can do the same job as me, but only if it's under textbook-perfect conditions? I mean, dude, I've ran machines built in the early 1900s, using tooling and materials that weren't even a concept when those machines were built (or even when they last had a total rebuild which would have been sometime in the mid-20th Century), trying to hold tolerances that would have seemed impossible when those machines were built. I mean, who do you want? The guy who can do everything perfectly, provided it's exactly the way the textbook described it to them? Or someone who'll go up to a machine that's nearly 100 years old (which it was at the time), and try to use it in ways the designers could never have possibly imagined because even some of the most mundane shit we do today would have sounded like science fiction to them, and give it a go? Yeah, sure, maybe I'll produce nothing but scrap. But you've got unequivocal proof that not only is it impossible for me to do this, but that I'll still make an effort to accomplish the goal, even if I don't get the specific task done right. That's worth something, right?

I mean, maybe I can't machine something to the kind of exacting tolerances the other guy can. But if he only knows how to do it on a brand new Okuma with the latest software and tooling involved, what use is he to you if you don't have an Okuma? What if all you've got is a CNC Bridgeport mill from the late 90s running Windows 3.0? Depending upon which machine you're talking about, and what you're asking me to do with it, I could very well not know shit about it. But you know what? Not only do I know this, but I know that if it's possible to be done, I will try to figure it out. I may not accomplish it, I may not be able to do it without fucking up a lot of shit in the process, but I can try. And I know I can try because I've had to try to do all kinds of shitty things with next-to-nothing, and sometimes I've managed to pull it off. With spectacular results (both positive and negative). That ought to be worth something, right?

Now, suppose up until that moment, both the Okuma guy and I have coasted through life. Neither of us had trouble finding jobs, or even working hard at the jobs we've found. The fact that when both of us were approached with something like real work and we had different answers ought to mean something, right? Sure, maybe I am more likely to amputate all my limbs before I ever figure out how to do the job. But so what? Maybe I won't, and even if I do, you might be able to get something productive out of me while you search for someone more qualified to do the job. What are you going to do?

Okay, sure, perhaps they were the most unqualified fucks on the planet. So what? At least they tried. How many of us out there can say that we put our fucking lives at risk to save other human beings on the planet? I'm sure we've both been in the trades long enough where we've seen some shit. Might have just been, "Oh, fuck, if that had gone just a little bit wrong, people could have died," but it could also have been, "Oh, fuck. He's dead." And we've also seen guys take a look at the easiest shit imaginable and act like you're asking them to handle plutonium naked. It seems to me, that even if you assume these women were given a cakewalk all the way up, they still did more than most people. You know what heat's like. Shit gets hot enough, it doesn't matter how safe it is, it gets uncomfortable to be around. You're a welder, you work with hot stuff. You know the one thing that always stuck with me while I was pouring metal? "My own body is a danger to me, right now." All that heat, you've got sweat just pouring out your body like you're an Olympic athlete at the peak moment of their career and break a world record, and if that sweat hits the metal? It could kill ya. You have a steam explosion throwing bits of metal in the air, and then the guys holding the crucible dropping it, throwing even more metal in the air. Fucking nightmare. And because your body is trying to keep itself cool, it's dumping water as fast as it can.

Now, I don't know what kind of heat those women might have experienced prior to this. I do know that forest fires get hot enough to melt the aluminum blocks in cars (so, 1800F+). Not too many people are going to want to even to pretend to work at a job where they get exposed to the temps one might find in a kitchen. But one in which you might face 1800F+ temps? That number's going to be even smaller.

So, unless you can provide proof that these women were told that they were going to do nothing but photo ops, I'd say they belong on a slightly higher level than the majority of the population. Maybe not as high as you and I, since we're skilled at our jobs and all, but better than the person flipping the sign outside of the cellphone store when it comes to potential self-sacrifice.
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

your mistake is presuming he has a skilled job rather than feeds a machine. If naught else over the last 20 years he's displayed no capacity for learning.
Click to expand...

“Skilled” labor is a lie designed to allow certain labor to be paid less. Please reword your statement.

Spaceturkey · Jun 14, 2023

Jenee said: ↑

Spaceturkey said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Yeah, I story that ends with this image:

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the publication.

Oh, and this phrase, "grad-school ski bum" could fit a whole shitload of the kids of the wealthy and powerful. Except for maybe, the "grad school" part, as not all of them would have done that. But the number of them that would then try to get a job that involves real work (regardless of their qualifications), is pretty fucking small. And, trust me, those weren't green recruits they brought out there, who'd never seen a fire hose before. Those were folks who'd gone through training and at least had some idea that the shit was going to be hot and hard.

I ain't never fought a forest fire, but I've poured molten steel, so I have some idea of what they're going through. Doesn't matter if they're 100% incompetent, the fact that they were willing to stick it out long enough to where they found themselves in an uncontrollable situation says a lot about them. Reminds me of what my friends who've been to boot camp have said, "The drill instructors care as much about what you succeed at, as they do how hard you try." Even if you can't do something, but you show that you're willing to try as hard as you can is sometimes enough for them to pass you, even though you should have failed the test. Not because you did the thing, but that you showed you were willing to fully commit yourself to a task, no matter how impossible it might be. That's pretty important when you're dealing with life-and-death situations. You know, when you might have to ask someone to sacrifice their life in order to save other people.

Who do you want in that situation? Do you want a person who can easily sail through a tough situation that's carefully staged so the risk to them is minimized? Or do you want a person who treats climbing that wall with the same level of intensity of landing on the beaches at Normandy? Sure, they might never be able to haul their ass up that wall all the way, but they're going to keep at it until they're dead? In some situations, you're going to want to have one, in others, you'll want the other person.

But even if those women just walked into the job, without qualifications, without training, and were just as clueless as what to do in a forest fire as you or I might be. They applied for those jobs. They put up with people (rightly or wrongly) talking shit about them. You ever do that? I kinda did something like that when I worked at the foundry. Not only was I taking my life on the line when I suited up to pour metal, but because we made things for the military, car companies, and the medical industry, people's lives outside of the company hinged upon how well we did our jobs.

You're a welder, so you know what dealing with dangerous shit is like. For a variety of reasons, not too many people can do a job like that. It takes skill, it takes risk, and you know that no matter how careful you are, there's always a moment of luck involved with it at times. You might have done everything right, but because something else went wrong, you're now staring at a really shitty situation. One that could have been worse if something minor had gone just a bit differently. Right? How many people out there refuse to be a welder since they know that there's a chance they could get burned? I don't know. But it's certainly a non-zero number.

My first job in the metal working trades was as a grinder in the foundry. It was 2003, and it paid like $7/hr. Not only was that less than what I was making at my shitty temp job, but it was less than I made working in a warehouse a decade before driving a forklift. But I took it. Knowing that the pay was shit, the working conditions were shit, but I wanted to work in the metal trades and that was the only job I could find in the industry that would hire me without experience (despite the fact that I had 3+ years of trade school under my belt). So, I fucking did it. Not because I had some fantasy that they'd come to their senses and pay me a living wage, but because I knew that if I could survive there, then I'd have experience so I could find a better job.

And I don't know how one could evaluate my performance as a machinist, other than I try. Yes, there are objective ways to do that, but that's sort of neither here nor there since I don't have enough comparison data with other machinists to know exactly where I fall in the rankings. But you get the idea. Maybe I can't do exactly what someone wants, but I'm going to try to get as close to as what they want as I can. How do I stack up against someone who can do the same job as me, but only if it's under textbook-perfect conditions? I mean, dude, I've ran machines built in the early 1900s, using tooling and materials that weren't even a concept when those machines were built (or even when they last had a total rebuild which would have been sometime in the mid-20th Century), trying to hold tolerances that would have seemed impossible when those machines were built. I mean, who do you want? The guy who can do everything perfectly, provided it's exactly the way the textbook described it to them? Or someone who'll go up to a machine that's nearly 100 years old (which it was at the time), and try to use it in ways the designers could never have possibly imagined because even some of the most mundane shit we do today would have sounded like science fiction to them, and give it a go? Yeah, sure, maybe I'll produce nothing but scrap. But you've got unequivocal proof that not only is it impossible for me to do this, but that I'll still make an effort to accomplish the goal, even if I don't get the specific task done right. That's worth something, right?

I mean, maybe I can't machine something to the kind of exacting tolerances the other guy can. But if he only knows how to do it on a brand new Okuma with the latest software and tooling involved, what use is he to you if you don't have an Okuma? What if all you've got is a CNC Bridgeport mill from the late 90s running Windows 3.0? Depending upon which machine you're talking about, and what you're asking me to do with it, I could very well not know shit about it. But you know what? Not only do I know this, but I know that if it's possible to be done, I will try to figure it out. I may not accomplish it, I may not be able to do it without fucking up a lot of shit in the process, but I can try. And I know I can try because I've had to try to do all kinds of shitty things with next-to-nothing, and sometimes I've managed to pull it off. With spectacular results (both positive and negative). That ought to be worth something, right?

Now, suppose up until that moment, both the Okuma guy and I have coasted through life. Neither of us had trouble finding jobs, or even working hard at the jobs we've found. The fact that when both of us were approached with something like real work and we had different answers ought to mean something, right? Sure, maybe I am more likely to amputate all my limbs before I ever figure out how to do the job. But so what? Maybe I won't, and even if I do, you might be able to get something productive out of me while you search for someone more qualified to do the job. What are you going to do?

Okay, sure, perhaps they were the most unqualified fucks on the planet. So what? At least they tried. How many of us out there can say that we put our fucking lives at risk to save other human beings on the planet? I'm sure we've both been in the trades long enough where we've seen some shit. Might have just been, "Oh, fuck, if that had gone just a little bit wrong, people could have died," but it could also have been, "Oh, fuck. He's dead." And we've also seen guys take a look at the easiest shit imaginable and act like you're asking them to handle plutonium naked. It seems to me, that even if you assume these women were given a cakewalk all the way up, they still did more than most people. You know what heat's like. Shit gets hot enough, it doesn't matter how safe it is, it gets uncomfortable to be around. You're a welder, you work with hot stuff. You know the one thing that always stuck with me while I was pouring metal? "My own body is a danger to me, right now." All that heat, you've got sweat just pouring out your body like you're an Olympic athlete at the peak moment of their career and break a world record, and if that sweat hits the metal? It could kill ya. You have a steam explosion throwing bits of metal in the air, and then the guys holding the crucible dropping it, throwing even more metal in the air. Fucking nightmare. And because your body is trying to keep itself cool, it's dumping water as fast as it can.

Now, I don't know what kind of heat those women might have experienced prior to this. I do know that forest fires get hot enough to melt the aluminum blocks in cars (so, 1800F+). Not too many people are going to want to even to pretend to work at a job where they get exposed to the temps one might find in a kitchen. But one in which you might face 1800F+ temps? That number's going to be even smaller.

So, unless you can provide proof that these women were told that they were going to do nothing but photo ops, I'd say they belong on a slightly higher level than the majority of the population. Maybe not as high as you and I, since we're skilled at our jobs and all, but better than the person flipping the sign outside of the cellphone store when it comes to potential self-sacrifice.
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

your mistake is presuming he has a skilled job rather than feeds a machine. If naught else over the last 20 years he's displayed no capacity for learning.
Click to expand...

“Skilled” labor is a lie designed to allow certain labor to be paid less. Please reword your statement.
Click to expand...

please don't tone police me

also, I said "skilled job", not "skilled labour(er)".

Uncle Albert · Jun 15, 2023

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Yeah, I story that ends with this image:

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the publication.

Oh, and this phrase, "grad-school ski bum" could fit a whole shitload of the kids of the wealthy and powerful. Except for maybe, the "grad school" part, as not all of them would have done that. But the number of them that would then try to get a job that involves real work (regardless of their qualifications), is pretty fucking small. And, trust me, those weren't green recruits they brought out there, who'd never seen a fire hose before. Those were folks who'd gone through training and at least had some idea that the shit was going to be hot and hard.

I ain't never fought a forest fire, but I've poured molten steel, so I have some idea of what they're going through. Doesn't matter if they're 100% incompetent, the fact that they were willing to stick it out long enough to where they found themselves in an uncontrollable situation says a lot about them. Reminds me of what my friends who've been to boot camp have said, "The drill instructors care as much about what you succeed at, as they do how hard you try." Even if you can't do something, but you show that you're willing to try as hard as you can is sometimes enough for them to pass you, even though you should have failed the test. Not because you did the thing, but that you showed you were willing to fully commit yourself to a task, no matter how impossible it might be. That's pretty important when you're dealing with life-and-death situations. You know, when you might have to ask someone to sacrifice their life in order to save other people.

Who do you want in that situation? Do you want a person who can easily sail through a tough situation that's carefully staged so the risk to them is minimized? Or do you want a person who treats climbing that wall with the same level of intensity of landing on the beaches at Normandy? Sure, they might never be able to haul their ass up that wall all the way, but they're going to keep at it until they're dead? In some situations, you're going to want to have one, in others, you'll want the other person.

But even if those women just walked into the job, without qualifications, without training, and were just as clueless as what to do in a forest fire as you or I might be. They applied for those jobs. They put up with people (rightly or wrongly) talking shit about them. You ever do that? I kinda did something like that when I worked at the foundry. Not only was I taking my life on the line when I suited up to pour metal, but because we made things for the military, car companies, and the medical industry, people's lives outside of the company hinged upon how well we did our jobs.

You're a welder, so you know what dealing with dangerous shit is like. For a variety of reasons, not too many people can do a job like that. It takes skill, it takes risk, and you know that no matter how careful you are, there's always a moment of luck involved with it at times. You might have done everything right, but because something else went wrong, you're now staring at a really shitty situation. One that could have been worse if something minor had gone just a bit differently. Right? How many people out there refuse to be a welder since they know that there's a chance they could get burned? I don't know. But it's certainly a non-zero number.

My first job in the metal working trades was as a grinder in the foundry. It was 2003, and it paid like $7/hr. Not only was that less than what I was making at my shitty temp job, but it was less than I made working in a warehouse a decade before driving a forklift. But I took it. Knowing that the pay was shit, the working conditions were shit, but I wanted to work in the metal trades and that was the only job I could find in the industry that would hire me without experience (despite the fact that I had 3+ years of trade school under my belt). So, I fucking did it. Not because I had some fantasy that they'd come to their senses and pay me a living wage, but because I knew that if I could survive there, then I'd have experience so I could find a better job.

And I don't know how one could evaluate my performance as a machinist, other than I try. Yes, there are objective ways to do that, but that's sort of neither here nor there since I don't have enough comparison data with other machinists to know exactly where I fall in the rankings. But you get the idea. Maybe I can't do exactly what someone wants, but I'm going to try to get as close to as what they want as I can. How do I stack up against someone who can do the same job as me, but only if it's under textbook-perfect conditions? I mean, dude, I've ran machines built in the early 1900s, using tooling and materials that weren't even a concept when those machines were built (or even when they last had a total rebuild which would have been sometime in the mid-20th Century), trying to hold tolerances that would have seemed impossible when those machines were built. I mean, who do you want? The guy who can do everything perfectly, provided it's exactly the way the textbook described it to them? Or someone who'll go up to a machine that's nearly 100 years old (which it was at the time), and try to use it in ways the designers could never have possibly imagined because even some of the most mundane shit we do today would have sounded like science fiction to them, and give it a go? Yeah, sure, maybe I'll produce nothing but scrap. But you've got unequivocal proof that not only is it impossible for me to do this, but that I'll still make an effort to accomplish the goal, even if I don't get the specific task done right. That's worth something, right?

I mean, maybe I can't machine something to the kind of exacting tolerances the other guy can. But if he only knows how to do it on a brand new Okuma with the latest software and tooling involved, what use is he to you if you don't have an Okuma? What if all you've got is a CNC Bridgeport mill from the late 90s running Windows 3.0? Depending upon which machine you're talking about, and what you're asking me to do with it, I could very well not know shit about it. But you know what? Not only do I know this, but I know that if it's possible to be done, I will try to figure it out. I may not accomplish it, I may not be able to do it without fucking up a lot of shit in the process, but I can try. And I know I can try because I've had to try to do all kinds of shitty things with next-to-nothing, and sometimes I've managed to pull it off. With spectacular results (both positive and negative). That ought to be worth something, right?

Now, suppose up until that moment, both the Okuma guy and I have coasted through life. Neither of us had trouble finding jobs, or even working hard at the jobs we've found. The fact that when both of us were approached with something like real work and we had different answers ought to mean something, right? Sure, maybe I am more likely to amputate all my limbs before I ever figure out how to do the job. But so what? Maybe I won't, and even if I do, you might be able to get something productive out of me while you search for someone more qualified to do the job. What are you going to do?

Okay, sure, perhaps they were the most unqualified fucks on the planet. So what? At least they tried. How many of us out there can say that we put our fucking lives at risk to save other human beings on the planet? I'm sure we've both been in the trades long enough where we've seen some shit. Might have just been, "Oh, fuck, if that had gone just a little bit wrong, people could have died," but it could also have been, "Oh, fuck. He's dead." And we've also seen guys take a look at the easiest shit imaginable and act like you're asking them to handle plutonium naked. It seems to me, that even if you assume these women were given a cakewalk all the way up, they still did more than most people. You know what heat's like. Shit gets hot enough, it doesn't matter how safe it is, it gets uncomfortable to be around. You're a welder, you work with hot stuff. You know the one thing that always stuck with me while I was pouring metal? "My own body is a danger to me, right now." All that heat, you've got sweat just pouring out your body like you're an Olympic athlete at the peak moment of their career and break a world record, and if that sweat hits the metal? It could kill ya. You have a steam explosion throwing bits of metal in the air, and then the guys holding the crucible dropping it, throwing even more metal in the air. Fucking nightmare. And because your body is trying to keep itself cool, it's dumping water as fast as it can.

Now, I don't know what kind of heat those women might have experienced prior to this. I do know that forest fires get hot enough to melt the aluminum blocks in cars (so, 1800F+). Not too many people are going to want to even to pretend to work at a job where they get exposed to the temps one might find in a kitchen. But one in which you might face 1800F+ temps? That number's going to be even smaller.

So, unless you can provide proof that these women were told that they were going to do nothing but photo ops, I'd say they belong on a slightly higher level than the majority of the population. Maybe not as high as you and I, since we're skilled at our jobs and all, but better than the person flipping the sign outside of the cellphone store when it comes to potential self-sacrifice.
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I'm not reading all that. If you have a specific question, get to the fucking point.
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Because you’re too cowardly to address the issues.
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Phrase your "issues " in less than a thousand fucking words, and I might.

Tuckerfan · Jun 15, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Click to expand...

I'm not reading all that. If you have a specific question, get to the fucking point.
Click to expand...

Because you’re too cowardly to address the issues.
Click to expand...

Phrase your "issues " in less than a thousand fucking words, and I might.
Click to expand...

No. Because, as you so often point out, there’s no reason why the world should cater to the whims of an individual.

Spaceturkey · Jun 15, 2023

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Tuckerfan said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

I'm not reading all that. If you have a specific question, get to the fucking point.
Click to expand...

Because you’re too cowardly to address the issues.
Click to expand...

Phrase your "issues " in less than a thousand fucking words, and I might.
Click to expand...

No. Because, as you so often point out, there’s no reason why the world should cater to the whims of an individual.
Click to expand...

well, that and then he'd demand every point you jsut made be answered individually and without the context of the framing discussion...

still not wearing a ventilator in the powder coating booth, Al? Is that shit is still lead based?

also: this

Spaceturkey · Jun 16, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Oh, well. I guess you would know better, despite getting every detail wrong.

Click to expand...

why would anyone believe you, given two decades of misrepresenting everything?

Uncle Albert · Jun 16, 2023

Spaceturkey said: ↑

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Oh, well. I guess you would know better, despite getting every detail wrong.

Click to expand...

why would anyone believe you, given two decades of misrepresenting everything?
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Failing to indulge your rationalizing isn't misrepresenting anything. Nobody is obligated to go along with your spin.

steve2^4 · Jun 16, 2023

You don't perceive your own rationalizations and spin. Everyone rationalizes. Woody put it best, "I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex."

Uncle Albert · Jun 16, 2023

By all means, give an example and connect the dots.

Bickendan · Jun 16, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

By all means, give an example and connect the dots.
Click to expand...

We could, but I think you'd object to the string's color we'd choose to connect the dots...

steve2^4 · Jun 16, 2023

Uncle Albert said: ↑

By all means, give an example and connect the dots.
Click to expand...

.
.
.

Uncle Albert said: ↑

Failing to indulge your rationalizing isn't misrepresenting anything. Nobody is obligated to go along with your spin.
Click to expand...

Tuckerfan · Jun 30, 2023

Canadian Wildfire Smoke Has Wrecked NYC’s Air Quality...Again

Steal Your Face · Jun 30, 2023

Tuckerfan said: ↑

https://gizmodo.com/canadian-wildfi... Wrecked NYC’s Air Quality...Again[/b][/size]
Click to expand...

Ancalagon · Jul 1, 2023

Has the time come to recognize that Canada is a failed state and for the protection of the American People and Canadians own good that they and their oil be liberated?

https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/1675179195926806528

It is the American Way.

We Are Borg · Jul 1, 2023

Buncha fucking Yankee crybaby pussies.

Again, there wasn't this much whining from Vancouverites when all that smoke from California wildfires blanketed the city a few years ago.

New Yorkers should go outside and take a real deep breath. Suck in those carcinogens and let the American health care system take care of you in a few years.

Tuckerfan · Jul 17, 2023

The Midwest Is Being Engulfed by Canadian Wildfire Smoke

Tererune · Jul 18, 2023

We Are Borg said: ↑

Buncha fucking Yankee crybaby pussies.

Again, there wasn't this much whining from Vancouverites when all that smoke from California wildfires blanketed the city a few years ago.

New Yorkers should go outside and take a real deep breath. Suck in those carcinogens and let the American health care system take care of you in a few years.

Click to expand...

Fucking dumbass, NY was just pissed because your pollution smelled different than septic flavored NYC pollution. It is like you bringing your fucking marlboro crap ass smokes to their fucking menthol smoking party. You just burned trees. NY fire is a fine american blend of burning substances from every nation and type of human shit and BO on earth. Canadian fire smoke is like burning a clove cigarette. No one likes that canadian smog except for hipster douchebags in starbucks.

Spaceturkey · Jul 18, 2023

Tererun said: ↑

We Are Borg said: ↑

Buncha fucking Yankee crybaby pussies.

Again, there wasn't this much whining from Vancouverites when all that smoke from California wildfires blanketed the city a few years ago.

New Yorkers should go outside and take a real deep breath. Suck in those carcinogens and let the American health care system take care of you in a few years.

Click to expand...

Fucking dumbass, NY was just pissed because your pollution smelled different than septic flavored NYC pollution. It is like you bringing your fucking marlboro crap ass smokes to their fucking menthol smoking party. You just burned trees. NY fire is a fine american blend of burning substances from every nation and type of human shit and BO on earth. Canadian fire smoke is like burning a clove cigarette. No one likes that canadian smog except for hipster douchebags in starbucks.
Click to expand...

menthols are banned up here... not sure about cloves yet.

beisdes, we're sending you some boutique old growth forest smoke... that shit's like $6.99 a bottle!

Tuckerfan · Aug 16, 2023

Full evacuation for Yellowknife, Ndılǫ and Dettah

Ancalagon · Aug 20, 2023

I thought we talked about y’all cutting this shit out.

We Are Borg · Aug 20, 2023

Ancalagon said: ↑

I thought we talked about y’all cutting this shit out.
Click to expand...

If you would be so kind as to send Tropical Storm Hilary a bit further north, that would probably help.

kthanks bye

Tuckerfan · Aug 20, 2023

We Are Borg said: ↑

Ancalagon said: ↑

I thought we talked about y’all cutting this shit out.
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If you would be so kind as to send Tropical Storm Hilary a bit further north, that would probably help.

kthanks bye
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We’ll get HAARP right on it. Though, the Norwegians might have a few thoughts about that. https://www.tgo.uit.no/articl/ramfj.html

Steal Your Face · Aug 20, 2023

We Are Borg said: ↑

Ancalagon said: ↑

I thought we talked about y’all cutting this shit out.
Click to expand...

If you would be so kind as to send Tropical Storm Hilary a bit further north, that would probably help.

kthanks bye
Click to expand...

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