Heroes "Volume 4" Finale 'An Invisible Thread' 3.25

No, they don't know. Only the people in the room at the time know - Noah, Angela and Parkman. Remember Noah said something about having to lie to his family again.

It occurs to me that, while they already teased the viewers with Sylar's personality reasserting itself, they'll probably drag that actual event out until the end of the next season.

Yeah, but it didn't seem like she tried all that hard to get in after Sylar shut the door. She should have been slamming at the door trying to break it down or something instead of just staring at the fight IMO.

And instead of just lying on her butt and telling the boys to get Sylar immediately after Sylar threw her out, she could have gotten up and tried to go in at the same time as them.

Clare do something constructive? Are you kidding? That's why I wanted her to get offed instead of Nathan. A bullet in the sweet spot. Then you'd have two families out for vengeance. Nathan was way more interesting than Clare. Tons of story potential there if the pretty princess kicked off. But they "sort of" kill Nathan. I hate the whole twins, doubles, or clones bull shit with replacing characters. It's a cop out. Either kill off the character or keep them and move on. Don't "sort of" kill them. They may yet "sort of" kill Tracy and bring in Barbara. It's weak.

No, Peter and Clare don't know. Peter would never accept Sylar as his brother, but I'm sure that this will give Clare another chance to rail at Noah when she finds out. Lather, rinse, repeat. I love you, daddy. I hate you, daddy. I love you daddy.

Clare doesn't have the brains to think about some magical way she could have helped. Her power is useless, because all it does is stop her dying. She has nothing that could give her an advantage in a fight with someone else with powers, and she's just a schoolkid still, so she doesnt have the life experience or fighting skills to have found a way that could outwit sylar. Because essentially, at that point, she needs to outwit him. There's nothing else she could do.

I believe in Nathan being dead, because his throat was slit, and we saw quite a lot of blood come out before Sylar left, and then there was even more delay.
Noah, when shot through the eye, was almost immediately given Claire's blood. They just thought he was dead, and whathisfacebaldy cleared up the body very very quickly.

If Nathan's body was cold, it would mean the heart wasn't pumping blood, which would mean that Claires blood would just fall in, it wouldn't be pumped round.

I think the thing with Sylar is quite good, simply because he does have everything in essence to be Nathan Petrelli, we already heard about how a mother will go to 'any length' not to be seperated from their child, and frankly, unless you believe in the concept of a soul, the logic fits.

It also fits the character of Angela, as she continuously does stupid things believing that just because she can see SOME of the future means she can see it all. I mean, it was her misinterpretation of the dream originally that led to her sister being left in the desert for 50 years or whatever. Angela is a control freak, who cannot see that her need to control everything is what actually leads so many things to be destroyed. If memory serves, thats the kind of character we saw in the beginning, before we knew much about her, or the fact she had a power. It's simply an extension of what we already know.

That's a good point about Claire. If ever there was a superhero suited to learning some hand-to-hand combat skills, it would be the one with the power of regeneration.

Claire's power has only been used to good advantage a couple of times.

Saving people from the burning train wreck, Getting thru Nuclear Guy's radiation waves before he blew, faking out puppet-master by letting her Mom shoot her, and acting as a bullet shield for the others when Daphne was shot.

Those were clever bits, and used her power tactically.

Otherwise, yeah, she's just a whiney teenager.

Angela's supposedly acting this way, like Sylar is really her child, because she's a grieving mother and grieving parents do strange things. Why didn't the parental instinct kick in before Nathan died? Why didn't she try to warn Nathan instead of chasing Matt all over the country? Screw the dream. Nathan's her child even if he's 40. A parent's always a parent.

I've said before and I'll say again - laying aside the unrealism of the very plot (superpowers) there is a lot about Heroes that is VERY realistic...

A teenager is whiney? Ya think?

A young man (Peter) is hyper-idealistic and preachy? Yup.

A politician (Nathan) is self serving and misguided? Check.

A serial killer (Sylar) is unpredicatable and sometimes illogical?

A geek (Hiro) let's his comic-book ideas affect his judgement? Uh-huh.

So forth and so on...

for the most part, they write these people as flawed human being flying by the seat of their pants (as we all often do in our own lives) and facing situations none of their past experiences and worldview could have prepared them to deal with rationally.

For us, as jaded viewers of dramatic television, it's easy to say "Why didn't X just do Y?" but I'll say frankly, if I suddenly discovered in the morning that I could throw lightning bolts from my fingertips and the Men in Black were at my door, I don't presume that I would take the time to make the best tactical move to win the day - I'd probably react viscerally and make crucial mistakes that you would say later "why didn't you just...?"

That's not to say there are not writing and plot difficulties with the show...but I find the imperfections of the characters refreshing, not a detriment.

Plot holes and writing inconsistencies? It's a little more problematic than that. Plot chasms. Them conveniently "forgetting" the restorative power of Clare's blood just buggers all logic and belief. How about the fact that Sylar can shapeshift his clothes, too?

These powers aren't new to these characters anymore. Making a mistake in reaction to a new situation is different than outright amnesia and stupidity.

Again, the heart needs to be beating to pump the restorative blood. No beating heart = useless blood.

Don't know about sylar though, need to watch again, cos i didnt notice that.

There's no evidence for that. Or that HRG's heart was still beating. His eyes were glassed over when he was revived. That happens after the heart stops.

HRG was dead. Yeah, Sylar is shapeshifting his clothes. The writers talked about it in that Behind the Eclipse feature. They said he wasn't supposed to be able to but they decided to ignore it, just like the bit with Clare's blood.

Hell, on my show the shapeshifter had the common decency to strip off his clothes when mutating and steal the clothes from the victim he was imitating. Supernatural rules. Heroes drools.

Seriously--this is a proper shapeshift after you've taken your intended victim down to the sewer and taken his clothes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrHm04WVvKQ

Watch out for shedding body parts. Cool, huh?

Feel free to direct me to one single shape-shifter in all of creative fiction that DOESN'T morph their clothing too?

EDIT: I see you are describing one in Supernatural. Still, I stand by the following...

I'm sure they are out there but that particular contrivance is far FAR more common.

It's also quite common for a fictional universe to "forget" some point already established. It happened in Trek all the time, it happens in Lost. it happens in non-genre shows too, I suspect.

Within the fictional universe, none of them have been "powered" for a very large portion of their life and a lot of their powers are not that "ordinary" (i.e. flying is a lot more straightforward than directed microwaves)

Beyond that, if you want to start nitpicking the physics of superpowers you are in deep deep DEEP shit.

For just one example - if Daphnie could actually move as fast as she appeared to, she would have fried herself from friction.

In comparison to that, shapeshifting including your clothing is hardly a big deal.

But miniborg has a good point - in that context it's a bigger plot hole that they COULD revive Bennett than that they didn't revive Nathan.

I watched that clip and all I have to say is...you ENJOY watching that?

Shapeshifters shifting clothing too:

Charmed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb6fRvySNIg&feature=related

Torchwood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKMD-x_Y7PI&NR=1

Space 1999
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SVWqtzKh7A
(and she actually had something in the pocket of the shfted clothing!)

Star Trek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgCIYMG4A0M

Examples are legion I expect

Oh hell yes. They've done much more disgusting shit than that on Supernatural. Buffy Summers is a picnic on a sunny day with her little stake that makes vamps disappear into thin air. They have to behead them in the Supernatural verse. The ghostie that made the stuck elevator fall half a floor just when the security guard was sticking his head through--and left a twitchless bloody headless body on the floor was a particular favorite of mine. Sam Winchester severing vampy Gordon Walker's head with a chain wrapped around his neck is my favorite.

The reason I bitch so much about Heroes is that I've seen season one. I know that they can do so much better than this shit. What the hell happened? I know that a show can put together story arcs with continuity from season to season. Supernatural has done it for four seasons now. Little things from season one or two aren't forgotten. Occurences that didn't make sense then suddenly make sense later. Clues that you didn't realize were clues at the time were laid out along the way. Powers aren't given in too much abundance to the brother who was infected with demon blood in his nursery as a baby. There are stated limits. The one episode in which time travel was allowed, it was instigated by an outside force who isn't allowed to let it happen again. The angels of the Lord that have come onto the canvas are complete and total dicks--and the characters call them that to their face. Can't beat that with a stick. This forum should love that. Plus, it is funny as hell without resorting to childish antics. How many shows would have a 6 foot bipolar teddy bear brought to life try to shoot himself in the middle of an apocalypse? The censors actually tried to get Eric Kripke to cut out the shot of the teddy bear stuffing blowing all over the back wall after the gun shot. Ben Edlund's a genius.

Heroes has an oustanding cast and a budget that was through the roof. It should be able to do all than and then some. Instead they have writers that can't even remember major plot points like Clare's restorative blood that brought a major character back to life after being shot in the eye. Writers shouldn't forget things like that. I could forgive the shapeshifting clothes if anything else made any sense, and if an arc that should have been about the ramifications of the specials being outed didn't end up being all about Sylar. Hell, Peter shot his brother Nathan and the writers never let Nathan react to it. He and Peter never discussed it or hashed it out. I don't care that it was future Peter. It was still Peter. Nathan should have had a reaction other than reading the bible for 15 minutes. It should have caused a major rift. Then they never explained how Nathan suddenly revived from the dead in the hospital. At Behind The Eclipse, the writers said they never really decided how it happened....that explaining it wasn't important. WTF? Heroes should be amongst the most outstanding shows on TV. It used to be. What happened?

oops....

heavy on the sumbit button....