How far to the left do you think this country will go..

after this November's elections are over? Lets face it, Obama, Hilary and McCain are all liberals compared to Bush and previous republican presidents. McCain has a habit of not going along with the majority of republicans on issues in the Senate, so I figure he will be much less conservative if he becomes president and actually work with Dems in the house and senate. Actually, McCain might be one to actually have less of a polarizing effect between the two parties that has been going on for a long time in congress. Lets face another fact, it will be very hard for any president to get things passed with a small majority in either house of congress following party lines. Will Obama or Hilary be able to go across the aisle and build a consensus on things? Big talk and getting elected are one thing, but being able to get everybody on board is another. I just hope things work out for the best. I don't want to lose too many rights, I don't want higher taxes, I don't want government control of my life.

The country needs to run to the center, but the parties have us so polarized that it won't happen.

It'll run left until it gets to the scene of the trainwreck.

not very

Compared to America right now? Dunno.

Compared to Canada or Europe? Not very far at all.

... Can somebody please tell me what is it that was so "conservative" about the current administration and the previous congress?

They've been socially conservative, at least on some things.

Bang on.

Spend, spend, spend....

Not much.

Maybe socially like Doc said, but fiscally they've been so liberal its pathetic.

Spend, spend, spend...

Spend what? The trillion-dollar deficit Dubya leaves behind?

Not enough.

I hate to admit it, but garamet makes an excellent point.

Watch 'em spin it now.

Then like most, you and I disagree on what a social conservative is.


A conservative is someone who wants to limit the power of governent. They conservatively interpret the constitution. A liberal is someone who liberally interprets the constitution. They tend to expand the power of government.

When you want to add amendments to the constitution in order to use the power of government to limit someone's choice in a mate... or rig the supreme court to expand the protection of law to unborn fetuses... now is that limiting the power of government or is that expanding it? When you apropriate government funds for faith based intitiatives, is that liberal or conservative?

IMHO, this administration has been far more liberal than the Clinton administration ever was... and they toss around the word as if it were an insult.

What's that old saying about pointing a finger at someone? Three more are pointing back at you.

If I were you enlisted person, I wouldn't worry about this country shifting liberally with the next administration.

I suppose it makes more sense if we look at the liberal/conservative divide using three categories (fiscal, social, political) instead of the usual two (fiscal, social).

In that situation, I'd call the Bush Administration fiscal liberals, political liberals, and social conservatives.

I also think that'd better fit some of the folks here who hold more socially liberal views, but who still strongly oppose government interference in support of those views.

I suppose that Bush socialized with conservatives, but that's about it, IMHO...

Don't you have a question you need to answer?

Not to cause a row, but didn't you used to be more conservative three years back? I could have sworn I used to knee jerk over some of your political views when I first came here.

Nope.

It almost pains me to say it, but there's a certain diacanu-like smirk ( ) involved when I say that I believe that over the next 20 years, America's chickens are coming home to roost.

Every president, without exception, from FDR to George W. Bush has expanded the Federal government and it's power to one degree or another. Every president, without exception, from FDR to George W. Bush has signed off on a budget with a deficit in spending.

It's tried to crawl out of the grave a few times since then, but I'd say true conservatism died in the Republican party in 1964 when Barry Goldwater lost to Lyndon Johnson, paving the way for the passage of all of Johnson's "Great Society" programs.

Does this tarnish my Golden Boy, Ronald Reagan's image? Yep. While he far, far exceeded my hopes in some areas, he failed rather spectacularly in others.

But, I digress. Personally, I don't think it's fair to saddle my grandkids with my debts. I just wish my grandparents had felt the same when they went to the polls.

I'm looking forward to when the US Politburo decides the quotas for 'Ohio'-Cars and 'Happy'-shoes for the 5-year-plan from 2010-15. I will smirk and tell you, guys, told you so: In 2008, you were using the word on a daily basis but from your perspective, you had no idea what 'left' actually means

Hm. You guys have racked up almost 10 trillion in debt (I think we'll see it this year). This was mostly for pet projects of the right: war and corporate welfare. So why exactly are you complaining? They gave you what you wanted and now you're blaming 'the left' for the debt? That's kinda nonsensical, you know.

They gave me what I wanted? I'm blaming 'the left' for debt?

Remember, I'm the guy in favor of a balanced budget amendment, and if you force the Federal government to have a balanced budget, they're gonna have a lot less money to go gallavanting across the globe starting wars.

Did you actually read my post?

More or less the same, but with nicer clothes and faster computers.

Oh, sorry.

DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM! THE BARBARIANS ARE AT THE GATE!

Better?

Oh, and I'll add that if it continues unchecked, in 20 years, the deficits caused by Medicare alone will make what's being spent on Iraq look like pocket change.

We've got to balance the budget and start paying down the debt, 'cause one day, the lenders are gonna say, "Enough!" and cut off the tap, that's when we'll really be fucked.

Eh, what's seriously keeping us from stealing Iraq's oil?

Realistically? Nothing.

However, while my nominal position is to always give exactly two shits about what the rest of the world thinks, like it or not, the earth is only so big and we've got to live with the rest of you fuckers, so we might as well at least try to play nice. So, alienating everyone, including our allies isn't something to be done without serious consideration including the full weight of the consequences.

What allies? Britain and Canada, but I can't imagine either one of them caring.

Russia, Europe, China; they're all in it for themselves.

If you vote Democratic, you'll get two of your three wishes. As they say, two out of three ain't bad.