How many of you are writers?

I'd love to be able to write to pay the bills. I'm not deluding myself about the writer's lifestyle, just searching for income. A shot in the dark, as it were, similar to my friends and I releasing an album: we had the songs, so why not?

Okay, with the proviso that I only really know how things work in the U.S. and not in the rest of the world, let me take a stab at this.

(As an aside, it's interesting to note that Hemingway didn't get published until he'd been to Paris, which is also where so many jazz performers got their start in the Thirties, the Beatles got their big break in Germany, etc. And some of my books have sold better in Germany and Japan than here. It makes sense only to the people who run things in the entertainment industry.)

Zenow, if you're really interested in making a living as a writer, go into journalism. Seriously. Because the vicissitudes of the fiction-writing business are so bizarre that you're as likely to be successful trying not to spill a martini while riding a roller coaster.

Was it Ricardo Montalban who once said actors are out of work more often than migrant farm workers? Writers, while we have more lead-time for the rejection process than an actor, who can do half a dozen or more auditions in a week and still not get cast, tend to nod and smile when we hear something like that.

Let me haul out the statistics once again: In the U.S., at least, one out of 200,000 first novels ever sees print.

As for income, it's a lot of reading, but this is as true today as it was five years ago or 25 years ago.

The most important take-away from that document is this sentence: "The median income from books for the American writer is about $5,000....it is still nearly impossible to make a living writing books."

To answer the question "Can you make a living writing novels?" the answer is: Sometimes.

I wrote for six years before I sold a manuscript. Some years I've earned less than that 5K, other years I've earned multiple times that amount. It's for those less-than-5K years that you have back-up, in the form of a job that doesn't get in the way of your writing.

And writing doesn't have to get in the way of your forming relationships or raising a family (she said, having done both). You may have to sacrifice a few other things in order to make time (Hint: Don't turn on the TV, for starters; spend a little less time at the pub, gaming, hanging out on bbs - you get the idea).

Also, if you have a really interesting, high-energy job, it may be that much more difficult to switch off and settle down to writing.

That said, all it takes to get the job done is the desire and a little discipline. When you're first getting started on a project, try to set aside the same time every evening to just sit quietly and stare at the page/screen; you'll be amazed at what happens. During that quiet time do not - NOT - answer the phone unless the world is ending.

And, as others have said, don't nitpick the words in first draft. Just let it flow. Plenty of time to tinker with it later.

Accept the fact that the odds are 200,000 to 1 of your selling the thing. And, if you sell it, your advance money can be anywhere from reasonable to insultingly small. And your book may or may not earn out so that you see royalties (which, BTW, in first run, can be anywhere from 2-10% of the cover price, depending on your contract).

Frankly, the only way to make real money writing novels is for at least some of them to be snatched up for movie rights, and even then you have to be very, very careful.

Lastly, if/when you do publish, pay no attention to the poltroons who send you nasty PMs on other boards telling you you're a "failure" because Anne Rice doesn't have a Day Job.

Thanks for taking the time for that one, Garamet I won't be discouraged, of course, though some sense of realism might be wise.

Concerning the money, I have no illusions at all - despite my occasional trip to NeverNeverland (Nether-Netherland?), like in my above post. If it's bad in the US, it's impossible in The Netherlands. The publishing climate here may be slightly less killing.. but then: the population of my country is only 16 million, and the number of people in the world who read Dutch can't be much higher (I can include Belgium, but that's about it, and the kids can't read yet). I think an average first printing for a debutant is somewhere around 2000 or 3000 copies- if you're lucky (it could be as low as 500). So let's say it's 2000, they sell at $20 and I'd get 5%.. I'd earn $2000 if they all sold. To be able to live like that, I'd have to write a book and have it sell out every two months. Indeed, that Martini sounds great right now. Of course it gets better if you become one of the famous few, but I'll order another Martini and a double whiskey (no ice) while laughing about that one.

As you indicate, it's not about the money - it's about being able to write, getting published, and having a way to earn money that doesn't interfere with your writing. Though journalism sounds nice, I'd need an education as a journalist for that - which no is a possibility (combination of age/money).
Once you get published, it could be easier to get your foot in the door somewhere and write a column or something. But there are only so many who can do that. There are foundation to support writers, and once you've earned about $1500 in one year with your work, you can apply for government funding for 4 years (!) and that's something I can hope for. But some obscure, quiet, non-demanding job should be my future aim. The downside of that is that those are extremely depressing.

So my aim is to get something published asap - like a few short stories, and try to get in one of the government programs. I'm relatively safe in welfare right now, I will start a computer programming course in january which will require my attention one day a week and will last till october 2006. I'd better make something happen.


Despite all the gloomy prospects when I look at things realistically - the chances of getting published here are undeniably higher than in the US: if one out of every 200,000 novels would see print, we'd only get 80 new books a year if every man, woman, and child would write a book every year. But that's probably also the reason why the average quality of the Dutch novel is so low, by the way.

That would make a nice sig, except if that phonecall is to inform you of that impending disaster.

p.s. I don't go to pubs, hardly watch tv anymore, I don't play games anymore... and...erhm..your post-count is higher than mine!

^And you've hit it exactly right. Getting short stories published is a way of building your writing resume. Also, if you know of any small, local newspapers that will take you on as an unpaid columnist, you can build some "brand recognition" that way.

It's obvious you take enough joy in the process of writing itself so that, whatever path you choose, you'll be a success.

I'm our department's technical and policy writer, amongst many other things... I also do one or two articles a year for certain trade journals and local news pubs. Closest I come to writing fiction is the occasional bit of line editing I do for people I know. ($1.50 a page to make sure you don't submit dumb typos is a service some feel to be a fair value...)

My son has had better luck getting his fiction published than I have.

I write ficiton. SF, Fantasy, and Speculative. Short stories, mostly, but have an a couple of ideas cooking on novels. Although I've not sold anything, I've been told by too many professional editors to keep writing, as I'm, "not a hack. You have what it takes."
And I agree with Garamet... if you write, then you ARE a writer. If you're obsessed with writing almost every day, you are a writer.
As for backing up your work... I use a Jumpdrive ® by Lexar (like a memory stick). It's about the size of your thumb, and is FAST. 256 MB only costs around $30. Well worth the money for the peace of mind.

I'm a writer. I have some books out, some films and some short stories. I do it full time. Thinking about quitting. It's just such a bloody silly job. Then I take one look at the alternatives in life and remind myself that I can always write just one more thing and blow my brains out later.

Another SF cop storyline was Alien Nation. I can't believe you didn't have that one right on the tip of your finger.

I prefer what they call "high-concept" stuff -- SF, Horror, a little fantasy (although it's usually of the darker mythological variety, not that froo-froo cutesy shit.) I like to throw a lot more sweat and blood in with elements from any or all of the foregoing, though.

I write for my job, everything from television commercials to Web sites. I've also had a TV series pilot optioned by a small independent studio (with a distribution deal with a legacy network), written a wicked long novel, and started a much shorter novel. The ache and the joy are still there in equal parts. ;-)

I've been writing nearly since I was old enough to pick up a pencil. In 4th grade my teacher set up weekly "storytimes" for the class to sit around and listen to my latest installments.

I wrote a webcomic for a little while, that some folk saw here. Wrote for my university's science digest mag. Wrote a few articles for the Indiana Area Methodist newspaper.

Still working on getting something finished that I can publish, though. I have several ideas for different novels rattling around in my head, the hard part for me's always been finding the energy to persevere and push through that first 20,000 words or so.

But yeah, I consider myself a writer. How succesful of one I'll be, though, I dunno yet.

OMG a collegue. Welcome, other copywriter

Thankee, Casandra!