Probably everyone here knows the thread is titled after what Obi-Wan said to Darth Vader during their fight in "A New Hope." I'm wondering though: was it the least bit true? I mean it sounds cool and everything. But at least on-screen in the movies, Obi-Wan didn't really display any significant power that he wouldn't have had if he had stayed alive. Is there something in the novels, comics or elsewhere that does establish what happens after a Jedi is struck down and/or why? Other than them being a big glowy light thing in Jedi heaven being able to appear and give advice to living Jedis?
Obi-Wan finding a way to defeat death and giving that line is one of the few things that the prequels explained in a satisfactory way. Anakin embraced the dark side to try and save Padme but could not, whereas Obiwan apparently now has that power himself.
I think he meant in the sense of giving Luke Skywalker a motivation for pursuing the light side, to see his Jedi teacher struck down by Darth Vader no doubt profoundly affected him.
Nope, the movie you're referring to is Star Wars. That whole cultural phenomena in 1977? Yeah nobody had "A New Hope" lunchbox, nobody collected "A New Hope" action figures, nobody had "A New Hope" posters, t-shirts, temporary tattoos, cereals, stickers . . . Here's the original trilogy originally: Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back The Return of the Jedi Well it really depends on the limits of Darth Vader's imagination. Maybe being an immortal sage was too much to even consider.
The power was in his ability to guide Luke. Imagine, for example, the Battle of Yavin with Obiwan just hanging out in that battle strategy room. Could he have directed Luke in the required way to get the Death Star blown up?
I guess I'm still wondering: Is it that all good Jedi go to Jedi Heaven and become glowy mentor guys, or all people or what? And does becoming a glowy mentor guy come with any powers significant powers that being made of crude matter does not (except in terms of where/when you might be able to appear?) That would be making Luke more powerful, and Luke already had plenty of motivation to stay on the light side. I guess like what Obi-Wan said about Anakin, it could just be true from a certain perspective. Obi-Wan: Hand me that headset. OB1 to Red 5: "Use the Force, Luke! Turn off your targeting system and fire with the MF'ing Force!" There is even some ability to reach out with one's mind and communicate, as shown by Luke telling Leia to get him in "Empire." So I'm going to go with yes.
I'm failing to see whereabouts in the prequels the life-after-death trick was explained. I recall one vague line by Yoda about teaching Obi-Wan something.
Well, that's the thing, in the same damned movie, Vader says the Death Star is insignificant compared to the force. So, as Han would say "I dunno, I can imagine quite a lot!".
It's not all good Jedi -- so far as we know, Quigon was the first to sort of achieve it (voice only), and subsequently Obiwan, Yoda, and Anakin managed the trick. Luke (like other Jedi) is a tool of the force. If Obiwan becomes part of the force (which is my understanding of the force ghost phenomenon), then Vader is giving him a powerful tool in Luke. What is more compelling for Luke -- an old guy that he respects telling him to use the force (remember he had trouble with this on the Millenium Falcon when practicing against the probe) or a voice from the dead speaking directly to him in the cockpit? Plus, Obiwan might be respected by Lea and the various generals, but are they really going to hand over the mic in the midst of battle? I'm guessing they'd say "keep back old man!" As for the reaching out with the mind bit in Empire, there are a few reasons why that might not have worked in other situations. First, there's proximity. Luke and Lea were both on the same planet when that happened, whereas Luke and his X-wing might have been too far away from Obiwan during the Death Star battle. Then there's that special twin connection. Maybe it only works with twins. Add to this the fact that Luke is more powerful than Obiwan (though less trained). Obiwan might not be able to do some of the things that Luke can do.
I was interpreting Bailey as saying "The prequels give that line extra resonance because part of what motivated Anakin was to try to cheat death, and it's only (apparently) being on the Light Side that does that." At least for some people. Do the novels or anything else shed any non-canon light as to whether Sith have a corresponding glowy mentor ability, whether all Jedi manage to transcend death, whether ordinary people do as well, etc? It could just be much in the same way as a Christian or other believer might say "X is insignificant compared to the power of Christ/our belief system." There's not much reason to suspect that despite thousands of years of Jedi before him, Quigon was the pioneer of finding Jedi Heaven. I guess that raises another set of questions: is Obi Wan himself, or part of the Force or what is he? Does becoming a force ghost just happen or do you have to do stuff to prepare yourself first or are only certain people selected to become force ghosts as "rewards" for working for the Light Side?
Fully agreed. When you are able to direct your pupil that you knew (as an adult) for what? barely a day? to the point that he is able to wipe out a moon sized monster weapon with a single shot, then you are one hell of a powerful person. I wonder if any of the hundreds of Star Wars novels have ever addressed the issue of it Obi Wan Kenobi had any interaction with Beru and Owen while Luke was an infant or toddler? Knowing what we know now, it is hard to shake the idea of Kenobi very quietly monitoring Luke from afar and doing his best to steer him in the right direction covertly.
The way they set up the backstory with Kenobi himself actually choosing Tatooine to stash Luke does give that impression. Personally, I liked it was better when Luke was just a farmboy who happened to have a famous father who was murdered by Darth Vader and then happened to "make good" by flying against the Death Star. I never liked the "Luke, I am your father" and everything subsequent to that regarding Luke's origins.
He was! He tied Darth Vader's belt loop to the back of the school desk and put a thumb tack under his butt.
In Return of the Sith, Didn't Yoda say something to Obi-Wan about speaking with Qui-Gon Jinn after his death and that he'd teach Obi-Wan how to do it? Other than that, no, nothing that I recall.
Umm, you've just rejected the A->B progression of the heroic journey that is about the only thing that makes Star Wars what it is. Not that I disagree that Lucas kinda grafted that on after giving up on finding anything else to swipe from to create a coherent story arc.
Ghost Obi-Wan was instrumental in Luke's training as a Jedi. But for him Vadar would not have returned to the light side and fallen as a Sith. In that respect, it is Kenobi, and through him, the Jedi, who ultimately have victory.
