Is Edward Snowden A Hero?

You know, I might feel differently if I were doing something on the internet that needed that much protection... The worst I do is check out a little porn, curse out kids who play adult themed online games and hang out with you assholes. I just don't care enough to understand why this guy did what he did.


And here he is addressing the people of SXSW. Someone felt what he had to say was important enough to proxy his video through 7 servers to hide his location in Russia.

I'd probably respect him more if he'd turned himself in, but the fact that he fled to Russia with sensitive data from the NSA doesn't sit well with me. Heck, if he'd turned himself in, I'd support clemency for him, but preaching from him is something I'm not ready to accept.

What do you think? Is he a hero?

Yes, absolutely he's a hero. He faces danger and massive loss voluntarily to help other people against an enemy.

And that's what the NSA became by turning on its own people. We might discuss clemency for the people in charge there. Discussing clemency in reaction to Snowden's good deed is the wrong approach; we might discuss medals instead.

The whole criticism about fleeing to Russia falls apart when I heard all the details about other organisations he tried to get the information to initially.

Russia isn't giving him protection for selfless reasons, but when Snowden has the choice between being safe there or facing a life behind bars it's hard to blame him for making the choice he has.

Of course he's a hero, along with the others who are being persecuted for whistleblowing and exposing state criminality.

Then you miss the point entirely and are much too beholden to the system that Snowden is trying to restrain from its excesses.

He's a hero that ran away. So, not. Cocksucker who should face the consequences of his actions? Yes.

And even people who face the consequences of their actions aren't heroes.

I'm not certain I would call him cowardly for running to another country. Let's face it, it's not like the U.S. is going to say, "Mr. Snowden! Come on out! Just hand over the data we gathered on our citizens and other nations via our massive dragnet, and we'll let you go back to your normal life! For realsies!"

Do I think he's a hero? Eh, no. Still, a whistleblower who outs unethical behavior perpetrated by the government should be lauded for doing so. Whistleblowers work to keep agencies, both public and private, on the straight and narrow. Of course, I agree with Chris Soghoian of the ACLU, that companies need to start employing encryption end to end, and make it harder, because while most of the data the government collects may be innocuous, that doesn't make it right. They need to be held accountable, too.

He's a fucking traitor, is what he is.

I'm still on the fence. I'm no fan of the gov't spying on me, but as a defense contractor employee I've probably signed the same contracts he did, and I've had it drummed into me that violating them is treason.

The government is evil, and needs to be overthrown!!


You betrayed the government, you're a traitor!


Seriously, if you're an American conservative these days, how the hell does a wormhole not just rip open in your head?
Paradox proof crumple zones?

Really, Dickynoo, it gets more and more difficult to take you seriously these days. Conservatives don't want the government overthrown, we want it returned to its constitutional limits. And you don't do that by providing aid and comfort to the country's enemies, which is exactly what Snowden has done.

So, the "voting from the rooftops", stuff from the golden age of WF, that was...jokes?
Hard tellin' around here...

No, it was a warning based on historical patterns of what happens when government drifts too far down the authoritarian road.

Or are you a student of Dayton's history class, where the American Revolution is not important?

Warning to Lanzman for mentioning Dayton in a Snowden thread.

This.

My remark was taken out of context.

Do you regard the population of the country as being amongst its enemies?

He's neither a hero nor a traitor. He's a scapegoat who's vastly overblown by both supporters and opponents. He's hounded by the American government more for being an embarrassment than for anything else. His document dumps haven't been particularly selective, haven't contained information that's particularly surprising, and have been covered with a focus on matters that are problematic more for being profoundly stupid and ineffectual--collection of metadata on everything ever without any hope of ever usefully analyzing that data in a way that even vaguely approaches the effectiveness and cost-effectiveness of regular old-fashioned intelligence gathering--than for being genuine invasions of privacy. If you're going to whistleblow on matters that are common knowledge and that are illegal and immoral but ultimately minimally dangerous to the public then you've gotta be a bit more selective and a lot less dramatic. Snowden is someone who should have been fired from his job, blacklisted from government work, and maybe done some community service. I sympathize with him fleeing the country because of the tremendously overinflated charges he faces, but that still doesn't make him a hero. He's a guy who did 25 MPH over the speed limit, sober, who the government wants to try on attempted murder charges on the theory that speeding is dangerous without any supporting evidence. That makes him a victim of overzealous prosecution, not a hero. He's still a reckless driver.

"If this be treason, make the most of it."
-Patrick Henry,
1765.

So on the day that Snowden says domestic spying is worse than we think, our president in an "interview" on a popular comedy website.

Keep wagging that dog.

If Snowden had turned himself in, the crimes he exposed would have just been that much easier to cover up, and the media would have forgotten about it that much quicker. All that would have come of anything would have been for things to quiet down and be forgotten about. If you think anything different would have happened, you're fooling yourselves. This is the same government that has aggressively prosecuted whistleblowers, and has successfully lived down other severe breeches of public trust, like Fast and Furious. Do you really think Snowden would have gotten a fair trial? Then again, some of you actually think he's a traitor for exposing crimes that the government has committed against its citizens, all while talking about how you think the government has expanded too much and should go back to something smaller and less pervasive. What a bunch of hypocrites.

I don't think he's a hero.

I think he just started a real life thread of, "it's time for some disobedience"

"I aim to misbehave."

Perhaps that's what I see different. I don't think it's risen to that level yet.

I don't think he's a hero. You don't get the title "hero" for simply doing the right thing when given a choice.

I think the word is used far too much these days. There are good people who do good things, but now everyone's a "hero" for just doing something requiring basic empathy, instead of doing something exceptional.

Well, the world really is that rotten and most people that cowardly.


Look at all the people in the NSA that said "sir yes sir!".
There you go.

I am a bit of Frank Herbert's anti hero myth mentality.

You, Baba, are a wonder of nature and a phenomenon unto yourself.

The country's enemies? Whom did he help except for the people of the US, and some of the peoples of its allies?

I think Snowden performed a public service by exposing the issue and making it a topic of national conversation. I won't go so far as saying he's a hero because I'm still not certain of his motives. I have a hard time believing they could be that pure. But its also hard to argue with the sacrifice he's apparently made, being faced with the prospect of living the rest of his life in Russia as a fugitive, always looking over your shoulder to see if there's a black ops team there to "extract" you.

He does present as a self-important douchenozzle a la Assange or that ex-Vikings punter.