Latest experiment is socialism ending the same as always...

Agreed. So are you cool with "capitalism with some socialist aspects," or will you revert to yelling "Socialism! Commies! Venezuela!" the next time anybody suggests one of the policies that work just fine in Norway, Denmark, or pretty much anywhere else in the industrialized world?

 

If there was a way to do the socialism bits without surrendering so much power to the government, sure. Sadly, given human nature, socialism only works when enforced by coercive authority.

 

If we are talking about America we have coercive authority. We have one of the biggest police forces in the world and the largest prisoner population. Plus if you want to talk about coercive authority you should ask Edward Snowden, Chelsea manning, or even assange about how informing the public of things the authorities don't want them to know works out. Snowden is in Russia, Chelsea is in prison again being coerced, and assange has been imprisoned by the administration he had a hand in putting into power.

 

Do Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, and Canada all have unacceptable levels of "coercive authority"?

Several of those countries rank higher than the U.S. on the Cato Institute's Human Freedom Index, and the Cato Institute is not exactly a left-wing organization.

 

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your country capitalist to a large degree? My point being any system can be abused or misused to the detriment of the average citizen in that nation.
Capitalism isn't perfect but find a truly "happy" country that completely rejects all forms of capitalism - then move there......please, and tell us how it works out for you.

 

Look at it this way, can you find a "happy" country that rejects good policies on the basis they're kinda socialist?

I mean, you guys are barely in the top 20, while every country referred to in this thread is pretty far ahead of you.

 

Fortunately, all the countries used as reference when referring to progressive policies don't reject all forms of capitalism. Instead it is seen as a powerful tool which can do lots of good so long as it is properly regulated.

 

Imbecil. What part of subjective do you not understand? What is your major malfunction which prevents your brain from working?

 

Who's advocating for rejecting all forms of capitalism, though? Even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the member of Congress who most vocally identifies herself as socialist, doesn't argue for that.

 

Couldn't agree more, in fact it's two points I've been making in several threads summed up nicely.

1) There's no such thing as capitalist or socialist nations, it's all a question of degree

2) Any and all systems can be misused or abused.

 

The whole "subjective" thing is one which becomes difficult to square in the face of statistical significance though....

 

First; that's imbecile.

Second; I answered within the conditions of Oldfella's question. Subjectivity wasn't one of those.

E) stick your head back up your ass, where it belongs.

 

No no, it's all good. Socialism is a wonderful system. You just need the right people in charge.

 

Once again, an argument that nobody here is actually making.

 

Indeed. Putting any "right people" or elite in charge is the very opposite of socialism.

 

And yet, strangely, that's exactly what happens every single time. Castro, Chavez, Mao, the Kims . . .

 

Using those historic monsters to try to discredit social democratic models is a bullshit argument. It’s like saying the Democratic People’s Republic of whereever shows that democracy is evil.

 

So you're saying that when a government specifically identifies itself as socialist and the country it governs descends into authoritarianism and misery, that doesn't actually count as a socialist country? Because why, it makes you feel bad?

 

Anyone know what happened to the asshole who started this thread?

Did he get teh COVID and die?

Did he eat a bullet after his pal Trump got his ass handed to him?

Did he fly drunk (as usual) and crash a plane?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

See my posts earlier.

Any system can lead to this sort of shit if we aren't careful.

See Saudi Arabia or the DRC for instance. I strangely never hear you want to discuss the economy of Sierra Leone or Somalia.

None of which are remotely socialist.

This is horrific, but not a feature of socialism in and of itself.

It's a feature of humanity.

 

How's your system working for you these days?

 

He just needs the right people in charge, I suppose.

 

All things considered, it seems to be holding up. We're about to eject the biggest problem.

 

So, leaving the Trump stuff aside for five minutes, why are you so eager to discuss examples of abuses with the "socialist" label attached, but reluctant to address worse ones in countries with other systems?

 

I'm not. But people really shouldn't hold up socialism as some kind of wonderful panacea. The reality is, it's in conflict with human nature and simply doesn't work in the real world.

 

Everything is in conflict with human nature.

We evolved in oceans, then climbing trees, then roaming the Savannah. We have bodies which reflect this and complain at us when forced to sit in front of computers.

We have brains demonstratably built for handling societies with less than a hundred members and geographical areas so small that the Earth may as well be flat.

We are pre programmed to view strange accents and clothing as suspicious as it suggests someone from another tribe trying to steal food.

We have natural lifespans which would make you and I venerated ancestors, not living humans.

And you think the specifics of monetary exchange are the biggest disconnect we face in the modern world?

 

If only it was possible to look up the definition of socialism somewhere, and then examine how those countries work, in order to give an objective answer...

 

So when Nova says she's a she, I should take that as a given, but when a Venezuela proudly proclaims itself socialist, that doesn't count? We either believe people or we don't. You claim to be some kind of American expatriate living in France. But is that really who you are, or are you just saying that to sound, I dunno, worldly or something?