MARSOC: Fuck it. Can we just buy some M1911s???

I might be mistaken, but I think that the DOD does require firearms for US troops be manufactured in the U.S...if not by US owned companies. That's a major reason why we have Beretta USA, SIGArms, Glock USA, FN, etc with American manufacturing facilities.

And if the money earned doesn't go to American CEO's, it does go to American workers.

Well, we have Toyota USA, but you don't see many cops driving around in Toyotas. There is a reason for that.

Yeah, these foreign-designed weapons have worked out terribly for US forces.

What does that have to do with anything?

We shouldn't be spending government money buying things from foreign companies.

Well, I think we should give our fighting forces the best equipment money can buy.

I agree but I think we can design and build things just as good here in the US as anybody else. Just because its foreign designed, does not mean its the best. To change the subject a bit. How much ammo do you think people in the US have bought in the last couple years?
Are they really preparing for the end times or what? I know a guy who is more or less retired and still runs some kind of business selling rounds at gun shows, etc. What he does is goes some place for a couple weeks on vacation and does the show and sells bullets for a week and then vacations for a week or so and comes home. The whole trip pays for itself when it comes out in the wash.
He told me he took enough stuff to last him a week at the show and by noon the first day he was OUT! There must be train loads of ammo put back by people. Why would you need more than a couple thousand rounds?
Do you think its going to be the new currency?

I don't think "It's foreign designed, so it must be the best" is a part of the evaluation process. At least I hope it isn't.

Some people buy as much as they can now, in case it becomes less available later.

Yeah, but this is crazy, on a scale I have never seen or heard of before. Ammo factories running extra shifts just to keep up. Its been going on for quite some time now.

If you had a brain cell, it would die of loneliness.

What in the name of fuck does Austria have to do with Hitler today? Why should anyone hold any antipathy towards Austrians today over events that happened 70 years ago?

And the "plastic guns" comment betrays a shocking ignorance. Polymer-framed pistols have been so successful, that every major handgun manufacturer makes them (and most have eliminated their metal-framed designs). They've been adopted by police forces and militaries around the world and have proven to be very effective. I can't fathom how someone could appreciate a fine metal-framed gun like a 1911, but demean the polymer-framed Glock that shoots the same caliber, holds five more shots, is just as reliable, durable, and accurate, and is lighter besides.

I'm talking military in general. Like the M-16.

Special Forces have always been their own special little world.

They don't need a safety. I bet if they put Glocks in the hands of 10,000 troops and put any other pistol with a external safety on it in the hands of 10,000 troops you would get the same number of NDs.

I refuse to accept that the troops are that stupid and careless that they need a safety.

Ok maybe I was wrong about stupid and careless troops.

Uhmmmmm......partially. More like manufactured/assembled in America.

They've been making frames in Smyrna but all other parts are made in and shipped from Glock in Austria. If a Glock, like mine, is stamped Smyrna GA on the frame then that frame was made in America but all other parts of the gun are from Austria.

This is why they have to follow the import laws of the BATF and why the Glock has not yet been able to import the Glock 25 or 28 in the .380 caliber. Both guns fail the point system the BATF has setup for importing guns.

I think both would rocket right to the top in sales if they could get them in country.

Yeah sometimes it does mean the best.

Take the barrel on a Abrams tank. All versions IIRC are made based on European designs and we license the right to build them.

LSMFT

Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco

On the contrary. The cops over here have a Toyota FJ Cruiser.

I'm going to bore you all with a bit about how the military works, budgetwise, from a Marine perspective. Now because this shit is fucking confusing, I have whisky coursing through my veins, and you're not paying me, you're getting a somewhat simplified version. (Also because I'm not directly involved with MARSOC's procurement.)

The military has a fiscal year. Ends something like 1 October. On top of that, it has two types of years. On odd numbered years you can ask for money for new projects. On even numbered years, all you can do is move around money to adjust for unexpected developments. (Unless you have an "urgent need", but I'll skip that for simplicity.) So around...March(?) the major commands--like 3 star level--put together their wish list of what they want. Then the Marine commands all send representatives off to the Pentagon to sit in shitty little rooms and haggle over who should get what. A bit after that, they do a videoconference where everyone pitches their decision to a Marine 4 star. After he's made his decision, he takes it to the Secretary of the Navy. The SecNav then takes his budget to the SecDef. The SecDef rolls up all the military budgets, massages it, and take the consolidated budget to the President. The President integrates (with his amendments) the military budget into his budget and pitches it to Congress. Then Congress comes up with a budget and the money gets allocated. At any point along the way, Congressman Binotz can, completely capriciously, say "I don't think it costs $13 million for utilities for a year for Marine bases. I think it costs $5 million," and whack a $7 million chunk off your budget. Luckily Marines usually have their bases in warm places, so no one would freeze to death, but in this era of computers it'd be hard to get stuff done if they didn't pay the utility bill, so the generals have to take money from other areas of their budget to pay the utility bills.

Anyway...moving along, the Marines have likely had a line item in their budget for M1911 pistols since, oh, 1911. Back in the '80s, when the rest of the service went to the M9 Beretta, Force Recon decided they needed the added punch of a .45ACP, so they kept the M1911 as their standard sidearm. They pulled surplus M1911s out of storage, cleaned them up, tuned them up, and did the standard accuracy and reliability gunsmithing to them in-house in Quantico. Even using Marine armorers, this cost money, so there was a budgetary line item for it.

In 2004 or so, when MARSOC got stood up, they needed a sidearm. To keep things simple, they decided to have Kimber build them an M1911 to spec until they could settle on their standard issue sidearm. Again, relatively easy to do from a budget standpoint since they already had a line item in the budget for M1911s.

Apparently, given the current economy and political situation, the powers that be have decided the safest, simplest way to arm MARSOC is to specify using M1911s. I mean yeah a pistol is a lot simpler than an armored amphibious craft with a gun that can hydroplane or a jet that can hover in place, but it still would have to move through a slow, uncertain, odious procurement process. The Marine Corps, in its...um, wisdom, decided "Fuck it. The M1911's a pretty good gun. We've been using it to some level for 100 years. If it ain't broke..."

Better than the alternatively accepted definition of LSMFT we had as kids in this instance.

It just bugs me when Anc tries to show us what he's learned in the Army and speaks in lingo that 95% of the posters on the board don't have a clue what he's talking about.

There was another one?

Do I want to know?

I think I'm going to Rx ASA 5 gr QID PRN for headache.

Do you also throw a bitchfit when people use RAM and CPU in computer threads?

BTW, how many times do I have to explain these things to you:

http://www.wordforge.net/showthread.php?p=2179643

Calm down and Rx Alprazolam 0.5 mg QID PRN for anxiety.

Those are so universal that everyone who uses computers as much as we do on this board knows what they are.

As for the military acronyms which to most of us are obscure.....

Why are we going to memorize them? Why can't you spell it out like "Operational Detachment Alpha (ODA)" and then for the rest of the post put ODA?

You just show up in a thread and lay that alphabet soup down thick as hell and most people non-military are at a loss for most of it.

And don't tell us to Google it. You wrote the post, you tell us what it is. It's called courtesy towards your readers.

This is a thread about MARSOC. The MSOT is the basic MARSOC unit. And ODA is quite common. And as I've pointed out above, I HAVE explained the term before.

Common to you, but not to us.

Just rest quietly c SR ^, VSWNL, NAD.

Just rest quietly with siderails up, vital signs within normal limits, no apparent distress.

FU

Do you know that one? Or do I have to explain it?

I'm not carrying around a note pad just to translate your posts. Show some respect to the non-military people on this board when you're talking.

This is a MILITARY thread!

Context people! It matters!

And most of us are non-military, DA.

Anna is in the Navy and I never read one of her posts and think, "WTF did she just say?"

And well over half this board is non-military numbnuts.

"This is a thread about MARSOC. The MSOT is the basic MARSOC unit. And ODA is quite common. "

This shit is meaningless to a majority of the board.

I work in Corrections but I take the time to explain things. I don't just toss out SMU, CIT, FHS, FSG, or other shit because I know the people reading my post aren't going to know it. And I'm not a rude son of a bitch who goes around wagging my finger in peoples faces saying, "This is a Corrections thread" or "Google it" or "Look at the title numbnuts. Obviously this is going to be a Corrections centric and acronym heavy thread."

Teach your audience dude. Don't be an ass about it.

I HAVE. Scroll up if you need to read it again. Just b/c some people won't/can't learn doesn't make it my fault.