Maryland Shrugs

I do not. Nor do you. How is that relevant? Are they being "destroyed"?

People working hard and becoming milionaires is a bad thing? I don't get that.

But you're still using emotion-laden words like "wealth envy" and "class warfare" with the same zeal as someone from the other side of the aisle.

Take the emotion out of it and try to get a perspective based on real wealth...except you can't, because the truly wealthy guard that information with more safeguards and secret passwords than the Templars.

Nothing wrong with earning your own money. It's the Paris Hilton "let them eat cake" mindset that's wearying...

If it werent for the rich, there wouldnt be Paramount. There wouldnt be Star Trek. And there wouldnt be publishers printing your books based on a franchise that made millions for its creator who enjoyed the fruits of capitalism.
And if you want to talk about "secrets". look at the secrets and truths being hidden from us by our current ruler in chief and the illegal wars he's got us into along with the last one.
And show me where I said that these wealthy millionaires werent assholes. I said I dont envy them or want to be one of them.

Nobody cares about Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga. Niether should you.

The movie studios were not established by rich people (it's CBS now, BTW, not Paramount), but by hard-working and talented immigrants, excluded from the ranks of the Old Money, who created these entities from the ground up. That their great-grandsons are now coasting on their wealth is a different matter.

And there are so many things wrong with the concept that inherited wealth created Star Trek that I don't have the time to 'splain it to you.

Finally, the history of publishing in this country, if anything, is a cautionary tale *against* inherited wealth, but also too long in the telling. Then again, you seem to be under the illusion that I've only written for Trek, so it's hard to know where to begin.

The overly simplistic view is "Money Bad/Money Good." Sorry, neither. Each individual case needs to be examined, well, individually. Wealth acquired by robbing banks is not the same as wealth acquired by working 15-hour days at, say, a bakery you started with a few bucks you earned working at someone else's bakery and parlayed into a franchise. Wealth acquired because you happen to have been born to wealthy parents and have never broken a sweat in your life is a third case.

The Judeo-Christian mindset that permeates Western culture likes to divide everything into Good/Bad. Wealth, like government, like business, like religion, like any human institution, is not innately good or bad. It's the adjectives surrounding it that define it.

Oh, and Lady Gaga at least works for her income. Whether or not you think that, like pro athletes, she's overpaid is a side issue.

I'm not really talking about good or bad here (well probably I am, on some level). My point is that this again goes to show how in this crisis that was definitely not caused by the actions of the poor and the middle class, they're the ones that are paying for it while the rich continue to thrive.

That's the wealthy parents problem if their offspring become spoiled rich little assholes, not mine nor should it be mine.

Dont care if she does or not. Not interested in her or pro athletes one bit. Not my cup of tea not my business and it's not hurting me.

That's not the Judeo-Christian mindset doing that. That's the human brain. Binary opposition is just as common outside Judeo-Christianized western society. Stop blaming your parents for everything.

Well, that's a problem the socialists will need to take care of eventually. They will make it so there's NOWHERE to run for tax relief.

How do you know what my emotion is?
How about indifference? That's pretty much how I feel about someones inherited wealth. It isnt mine nor does it impact me. But it does seem to impact those who are envious of wealth wether it's inherited or not. I just dont feel the envy.

Well, like somebody famous once said, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

All governments are run on other people's money.

Sssshhhh... this is what she does, man. She decides what your emotional state is. Maybe she can't handle interacting with people that don't exist exclusively in her own mind...

Some of you need to pull your head out of your arse.

I don't agree with taxing rich people more, UNLESS it is done fairly. Fact of the matter is that there are a ton of loopholes that the upper class uses to keep their tax rates extremely low, while the middle class is stuck paying 30-40% rates. How the fuck that is fair is beyond me, and it needs to change.

The same thing applies to corporations. Big ones can afford the team of lawyers that pull their tax rate down to 15%, while the smaller businesses, otherwise known as the middle class can't afford those lawyers, and they're stuck paying the well documented 2nd HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

Unless we all begin acting like grownups and are able to sit down and discuss those problems, nothing will ever change. Rich people have the right to go to live in a state that allows them to pay lower tax rates. I agree with that. But they shouldn't be to exploit loopholes that shouldn't even exist.

In other words, quit giving fucking tax breaks to people who don't need it.

Yes, now pile on me for saying that the rich people in the US aren't paying their fair share of taxes. If you would actually create a fair tax system and mark it at 20%, guess who would complain? The rich. Because they couldn't exploit all the loopholes.

I've done enough business with a lot of those greedy fuckers to know good and well that they'll screw anyone over in order to avoid paying taxes. Sadly, the US has spent the better part of the last 50 years creating an environment where they can get away with it while the middle class suffers.

I'm sorry. Was I not supposed to take a simplistic statement and make it even simpler?

I only know what words you use when you post.

And yet you keep attributing "envy" to the opposition, as if that's the only motivator.

Exactly. Its already complicated as hell, probably intentionally so because the morons on Capital Hill allowed themselves to get duped by the rich and powerful to create a tax system SO complicated that the middle class would never be able to properly understand it or even utilize it to their advantage.

Thing is, if you simplify it and make everyone pay their equal proportional share, such as a fair tax, the rich would complain. Because they can't get away with paying next to no taxes.

And as long as the rich control Washington, it will never change.

The rich would surely complain, but the poor would scream their bloody heads off, too. Or, actually, the half (or so) of the country that doesn't pay any income tax at all because of the wealth envy party pandering to them. As our beloved leader has said, everyone needs skin in the game. That includes the poor as well as the rich. Lord knows the middle class has been getting soaked for quite a while now.

That's exactly it. Take away that incentive to game the system. Otherwise, the rich won't care what the tax rates are - they'll keep getting around it with loopholes. The poor likewise won't care because they're untouchables in our system. They don't pay no matter what happens to anyone else.

I am trying to see your side of things here, yet your statement reads a lot like "I don't agree with unfair taxation, UNLESS it is done fairly."

The US tax system is rife with loopholes for everyone, regardless of income.

Oh I agree that the US legal system is a failure. It's disgraceful that a legal Sherpa is required to even participate.

Then nothing will ever change. "We all" aren't going to sit down and agree on what it means to act like adults. Let alone resolve anything taxation related.

You've contradicted yourself here.

A 20% flat tax? I suspect you may be surprised by who would be in favor of such a proposition.

Heh. Based on your personal experience, what's the criteria for being a greedy fucker?

So circa 1961, some taxation shit went down that targeted middle-class folk?

What happened?

I agree. But, not everyone here does. Some suggest one flat dollar amount regardless of that person's income.

Yeah. Unfortunatly we here in the US are run by greedy people of wealth and power. I dont just mean corporations, but Congresscritters and others who get their wealth from taxpayer money and vote themselves nice fat payraises every fucking year while there are 14 million plus people unemployed.
And they wonder why their approval rating is in the shitter.
And as far as a fair tax, I wouldnt hold my breath on ever seeing it happen. that would take a lot of power away from the government.

I don't know anyone that suggests a flat dollar amount. I like the Fair Tax, at least as a starting plan to simplify and move to an everyone-pays system. And, yes, the truly poor wind up paying nothing under it but everyone else pays the same percentage.

Oh, I'm sure if you think hard enough, you'll figure out who wants one dollar amount for everyone. I'm not going to go searching for the post, but the poster's initials are UA.

Interestingly enough, western dualism almost certainly comes from the east. The Hebrews started out polytheist ("You will have no other gods before me") and were heavily influenced by the dualist Zoroastrian beliefs of the Persians who freed them from Babylonian exile.

The Hebrews had no concept of Satan before their captitivity in Babylon, but they had developed the idea when they were returned to their homeland. Like Zoroastrianians, they had come to believe that there is a struggle between good and evil/light and dark/right and wrong in the universe. Also like the Zoroastrians, they believed their creator-god was good and just, and that the force of evil originated (somewhat paradoxically if you're a monotheist!) in some other character. Hence, Satan.

I'd also add that the world--as far as facts go--is dualist: things either are or they are not, they're true or they're false. That's the beginning of reason.

Point of order, Paladin. The Hebrews referred to Satan in the book of Job. Its oral tradition precedes Moses (who is sometimes even given credit for writing it down) so was well before the captivity in Babylon.