Microsoft Surface: Just When You Thought Windows 8 Couldn't Suck Harder

Do you know when you're going to get it?

I used it in a virtual machine a little last night and found it pretty easy to figure out. Things are just in different places, which is sure to annoy the shit out of some people. Perhaps the biggest annoyance is how small the area is to bring up the Start Menu from Desktop mode, but if it proves to be overwhelmingly annoying they'll fix it in some upcoming patches.

This is something new, and experimental in many regards, and I give Microsoft big props for doing it. Neither Android nor iOS were perfect when they first came out, nor are they perfect now, but we've historically lent them the benefit of the doubt, I am going to do the same with Microsoft and Windows 8.

A hands on with the new Surface. There is one aspect of it, were I in the market for one, that would be a complete deal killer for me: No way to back the machine up. You can use MS' cloud drive to back up some of the files, and you can wipe out the OS and download a clean copy of it, but no way to back up all the files you want to, nor can you configure the machine exactly the way you want it, make a back up image of that to restore to when you've somehow managed to fubar your machine.

I will say that I'm surprised it offers msconfig and powershell functions on it.

Well, I downloaded Win8 final today and installed it (bloody cold and rainy weekend). For €30/$40 it's a steal. Really fast and I actually find the new interface quite fun. I only wish they hadn't completely torn the desktop and Metro environments apart. It's like two parallel worlds that know nothing of one another. Guess that'll change over time. Also, I don't see myself using Metro apps that much on the desktop. I see their usefulness on tablets but on a 27'' HD monitor with space for a dozen windows? Not so much.

Let's see what Google brings in terms of 10'' on Monday. It's either the new Nexus 10 or a Surface for me. The Nexus 7 is a fantastic little tablet that I use all the time; and the price is unbeatable. If the N10 falls into that same category it's mine.

I'd suggest if you have a Nexus 7 to wait for the Surface Pro to come out in January.

And yeah, the OS is a steal, I ended up purchasing a copy for both my desktop and laptop, and it only ended up costing me $55. I gotta say, one of my favorite features so far and has been ignored by everyone so far is the change in system fonts, it's one of those little things that most people don't appreciate but goes a long way to making the user experience move from tolerable to enjoyable.

You might be waiting for a while.

Anybody missing the 'Start' button on Windows 8 can install Classic Shell. I've tried it, and it kills the Metro UI along with the charms bar. Its not quite as pretty as the Start menu on 7, but I find it easier to deal with than the Win8 default stuff.

Why the upgrade, though? What is Windows 8 offering a desktop user that will make me want to pay even $45-$50 for it? Right now, Windows 7 is stable, has an appealing interface, and is easy to use. I can do in a quick shortcut what Windows 8 takes several clicks to do. I can transfer seamlessly between applications on Windows 7, whereas Windows 8 isn't as fluid.

What does Windows 8 offer me? What is my incentive other than having the latest gadget? This is genuine curiosity, and I'm not being facetious. I'd like to know, because I've used it, the beta and then the RC, and it's just a lot of noise with little melody. I mean, if I have to start tinkering with it right away just to get it to the same level of functionality I enjoy with Windows 7, there MUST be something else significant enough to make it worth the price and the upgrade.

For your average person, it probably isn't worth the upgrade. Since I'm a power user though, I find it pretty damn useful. Aside from the UI improvements, it's added a few things that I take advantage of, such as a unified login across multiple computers, redesigned file explorer and task manager, Hyper-V, and some more stuff that's escaping my mind at the moment.

In short, when you take away the Metro UI, the operating system is more evolutionary than revolutionary. Which I'm honestly glad of, because Windows 7 was a damn fine operating system, it just needed a few improvements.

Loads in 10 seconds on my computer, not even half the time 7 needed. That alone makes it worth it for me since it doesn't support all those fancy new sleep/standby modes, thus making it either 'on' or 'off'. And because I'm not too fond of astronomical power bills, it's mostly 'off'.

While I find the Metro start screen nice to play with, I only see it as a start menu replacement that's more clear, less finicky and more informative. People are complaining about it because they complain about everything. Changes? DOOM!!!!! No changes? THEY DON'T WORK BUT STILL WANT MY MONEY!!!! Also, people say 'why bother' with every single software release. If it were for those, we'd still be stuck on Windows 3.1 and Word for DOS. Those were good enough either, weren't they.

how many licenses will a windows 8 disc provide?

Maybe he didn't show Office because he didn't want to induce vomiting in his audience?

Since every OS upgrade invariably queers up all my games, I won't be upgrading. I use my PC for basically one major function- gaming. And I invariably mod the shit out of my games, which is why the PC is my one and only gaming platform. (We have an XBOX but it is pretty much my son's at this point).

No Windows 8 for me. In fact, most days I regret ever leaving XP for 7, although with 64 bit computers 7 is pretty good.

So how do you get to your programs without a Start menu? Does every program show up as a tile or just the programs/apps from the official store?

Suppose I downloaded a freeware Atari emulator. Where would that show up?

Or suppose I decide to reinstall a game from 1985 and play it through DosBox. How does that work?

You choose which programs appear as tiles on the Start screen. Obviously, you would pick the ones you use most frequently. All other programs appear in a separate list that you can easily browse/search through.

The new Start screen is actually very well done.

Okay, but it seems more like mostly minor UI adjustments than anything. Windows 7 file explorer is quite efficient, as is the search function. Again, I don't fault it as a tablet OS, but for a desktop, it just feels clunky all around. As a power user myself, it just doesn't feel worth it, though that's more a matter of opinion.

Still, thank you for responding.

My Windows 7 OS starts up in 18 seconds. What is there in that extra 8 seconds that justifies a $40 upgrade? Secondly, no standby modes may work for a tablet, but I use a desktop, and it stays on. As for the Metro start screen, I find it poorly thought out, and non-intuitive. In Windows 7, I can either use my keyboard to open my Start menu and select my program in under two seconds, or I can use my mouse and do it in a few more seconds. My Start Menu has 20 programs in it, ready to be selected, plus my Control Panel, Network options, Help & Support, Admin Tools, Documents, Pictures, Music, Downloads, Games, Hard Drive Access, and Device options in an easy to navigate dual pane interface. Either way, it's all there and very well organized.

I also find the Metro UI to be cluttered and unnecessary for a desktop. A tablet, again, large squares can be useful. A desktop? Hell no. If anything, it requires more active engagement. To me, Windows 8 is Windows 7 with layers of complication added to benefit tablets, but to leave desktops and notebooks behind.

Plus, when I want to shut down, I just go START>Shutdown. It shouldn't be that complicated. This OS does not have desktops or notebooks in mind. It's all about tablets. This "one OS to rule them all" poorly represents the largest part of Microsoft's market.

Thank you for responding.

I'll be purchasing the Win 8 Pro upgrade tomorrow. Multithreaded apps supposedly receive a 5% bump in performance, and being a benchmark junkie, I'm interested in that.

For $15 bucks for the upgrade, it's worth a looksie.

Interesting hack for how the Surface stores files.

Wow. She shouldn't have to do that. Even my cheap (but loved) little Android 2.2 tablet automatically consolidates media from both the onboard memory and the storage device. She shouldn't have to "work around" anything that is supposed to already be a full fledged operating system.

Ya that sounds like a very Apple-like experience. The beauty of Windows is supposed to be that if you want to do something you can do it any way you feel like, and not manipulate your way through a walled garden. It's actually why I prefer Windows 7 to OSX. It's weird that I prefer iOS to Android. I guess I just like my phone to work without any effort. iOS is simple and has a clean interface. I don't really do anything fancy with it. But with my computer I think ability to customize is a must. I want to do all sorts of stuff and the fact that I understand the technology should mean I can manipulate things like my memory cards to do anything they are capable of. I don't want to have to trick my computer into basics such as reading my media files from a secondary source.

I think it comes down to interface. How long do you want to spend fucking around with your phone functions on a tiny screen with a tiny keyboard and no mouse? Not that long.

A computer, though? Keyboard, mouse, massive monitor, the ability to stack windows and documents side by side. You can manipulate the shit out of the OS faster and easier than if the same OS was installed on a phone.

The Windows Surface RT OS takes 16 gigs!

The Surface ships with a "preview" version of Office 2013, which you can update, but not by the method you use to update everything else on the Surface.

In short, one update method for the Metro stuff, and a different one for the desktop stuff.

Thurott, normally a fanboy of Microsoft products, is less than impressed with the Surface.

So I'm rockin' Win8 on my desktop. Metro UI sucked, so I have "startisback" installed to make it like Win7.

Seems ok. This is the first OS that I paid for since... ever.

I'm still on XP and am quite keen to upgrade to Windows 8, seems like I can only dual boot if I buy the full OEM version though which is much more expensive?

Can someone tell me how to disable the password prompt everytime I start up or come back from lock? Fuck this.

Bought the upgrade for Windows 8 and did a clean install from a newly purchased solid state drive.

Didn't like Metro, so I installed StartIsBack.

It's pretty much exactly like Windows 7 now, except booting up and shutting down is a lot faster. App stability has increased, but that's probably more from running a new and fresh OS.

[YT="Alcohol and Windows 8 don't mix, it seems."]4cMVKW-fR1M[/YT]

Worth watching, because you can bet sober unsophisticated Windows users will react the same way.

I discovered today that the new build of Google's Chrome browser does not play well with Windows 8. Instead of simply launching, I get a pop up message about it being the wrong install of the software (it disappeared before I could read all of it), followed by a whole lotta nothing. When I clicked on it again to launch it, I got this pop up box asking me what browser I wanted to be default. It took multiple tries to get it to realize that, no, I did not want to make Chrome my default browser, thank you very much.

At which point, it did an install that bogged down my whole machine and when Chrome finally did open, it had an extra tab telling me how I could set Chrome as my default browser if I so wanted to. Uh, thanks guys, but no. If you'd bothered to check the version of Windows 8 I'm running, you'd realize that its the pre-release version, and if I'm running that, I'm probably savvy enough to figure out how to make Chrome the default, were I so inclined to do so. Absolutely annoying, and seems to indicate that Google is terrified of getting locked out of Windows 8. Really wish they'd just sue MS on anti-trust grounds and not bother me with this crap.

I hear Steam is looking into porting games over to Linux. That may be the wave of the future for me.

I played around with Windows 8 the other day ad Best Buy. It's interesting but to me it feels like they are fixing something that wasn't broken. I won't buy a computer with it until all these driver bugs are worked out for sure. I like the idea of a seamless transition between tablet and laptop but as of right now the laptop side of Win8 doesn't feel right.

What Apple has done well so far is getting portions of iOS to sync up with OSX. Media mainly but also documents, calendars, reminders, and notes. The thing is that most programs will just not function well in both mouse and keyboard and touch formats. The interaction is very different and to make everything work people have to relearn the basics of user interface and that seems like a very uphill battle to me.

So, it seems the guy responsible for Windows 8 has been fired. He was, apparently, a bit of a dick, but many people suspect that there was more to it than that.