Night Club Shooting in Orlando, FL

Poynter has put together some great resources to educate journalists about guns (including a free webinar on Thursday) but I don't think many people take advantage of them.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've had to correct a producer or reporter about a basic gun-related fact. Just last week I could've bought a meal at a pretty nice restaurant.

I hear the only reason Chris Christie doesn't eat every donut he sees is because some jersey person might go crazy and shoot his fat ass for a jelly filled.

Why should there be standards for measuring that which is worthy of condemnation? Are you arguing for nihilism?

The part where you do a ninja roll while firing accurately like neo in the matrix.

Guns are like lottery ticket. You only buy them for the dream. If you are ever lucky enough to have opportunity to use them you will be too dumbfounded to do anything and in the end you will probably blow your wad too quickly and have nothing to show for it.

I do actually have a friend who's a fat Sopranos wannabe, but he has more guns than me.
And I don't have a second story.

This made me giggle like a little girl: I had a cat named Trouble once.

So you're actually in favor of gun rights then?

Saw this on another site:

Okay, again, I freely admit I have no clue how I'd act in that situation. But I'd like to think my second thought (after pissing myself) would be to look for a way to stop the fucker. One man with a gun, in a tightly packed room full of people, is the one who's surrounded. Don't. Die. Fight. Back.

I'd much rather go down trying to resist than "wait my turn" to be executed.

I've never been in a situation like that (bad guys killing folks & nobody has a weapon of any type) but I can only hope that there were very few examples of people just laying down & waiting to die.
Maybe they were "playing dead" and hoping he'd move on to someone else. If they moved to look around to see where he was, he might see them moving & shoot them. I'm sure a few jumped around & ran around because it's harder to hit a moving target. Maybe some did just "give up" because they thought it was hopeless. But to be honest I really can't imagine not one person didn't try to stay to his six o'clock while he's shooting to his twelve o'clock. He can't see everywhere at once! I don't think the guy just spun around in circles for the entire time shooting. But yeah several guys rushing him from behind (the window for opportunity would be short no doubt) is at least a strategy versus doing nothing or panicking. What have you got to lose at that point? But tactically, staying in one place even if you do have a weapon to return fire never works. Before the shit hits the fan whoever is stationary has the advantage. The second the shit hits the fan whoever is mobile has the advantage.
I'm sure there were some military vets in the place - one victim was a young active duty army officer if memory serves. If a sizable percentage of that club were military (especially combat vets) I honestly think he would have been subdued much, much sooner, saving many lives. Training & experience just kicks in - it's a natural fact, proven over & over.

My assumption is that they all got down waiting for someone else to return fire. They forgot they were in a gay club with no conservatives to protect them.

I just thought of something. It could be that once the shooting got well underway that people were under the assumption that others (cops maybe? Security of some type?) already were returning fire.
If they thought this then of course they would lay close to the floor and wait it out. This could have been the thought process of some people. I'm sure in the days ahead more & more details and stories from survivors will materialize.

Some guy survived because he stuck his head under a couch and got shot in the body instead of the head. It's possibly the first time the ostrich defense actually worked!

They probably all thought the mythological good guy with a gun hero was there and didn't want to get in the cross fire. Good guy bullets are just as lethal.

Lethal to the jihadist, unless the hypothetical hero is Ray Charles.

While a good guy could accidentally shoot someone in the course of firing on the bad guy (people caught in the crossfire, missed shots hitting bystanders in the background), there's no way the good guy is going to be nearly as lethal as the bad guy who's trying to shoot people.

Kind of what I said - in this case the cops or security would be the "good guys with a gun" versus any armed bar patrons. And deride "good guys with a gun" all you want - you don't live in a place where a lot of people do carry weapons (even into places they shouldn't sometimes) so you don't know that not everyone carrying a weapon is an irresponsible drunk redneck conservative. You just don't have a lot of gun toters in your social circle. Here's one example of the possible deterrent factor from good guys with guns:
this weekend is the Augusta PRIDE parade. 14,000 people are expected to show up - you think that any bad guy is going to pull any shit knowing that literally hundreds of people will be carrying weapons and actually know how to use them? That would be for any bad guy. Granted anyone pulling a Boston Marathon style bombing would negate any effectiveness having armed people at the scene would entail, but most violent terrorist acts in the US are gun related versus bombs.

Heck, in Orlando the good guy could have shot people at random until he happened to hit the jihadist and the death toll still would have been lower.

source?

18 states allow guns in restaurants that serve alcohol. Four other states specifically allow guns in bars. Twenty other states don't address the issue at all, so you can carry a gun into a bar or restaurant in New York, New Jersey, or Massachusetts.

So that's 42 states where guns can be carried where people drink. The other eight states are convinced it would cause a bloodbath.

a practical regulation then, though one the NRA would never abide:

If it is argued that the AR and other weapons in that class are ideal for
a. home defense; and
b. hunting
and therefore ought to be available, then if this argument is sincere, why not have rules that so that yes, you can own a (registered) AR type rifle, BUT you can only take it off your own property (vehicles not included as property here) when you are hunting. And if you are on your way to hunt, it's pretty easy to demonstrate most of the time. Conversely, if you show up at a night club or a mall or the courthouse, you are not their for legal game hunting.

if one sincerely wants it for only those two purposes, then that regulation wouldn't be oppressive.

Here in Augusta a lot of people are packing in clubs, or have weapons available. If enough shootings occur, the clubs are shut down. I really feel sorry for the people trying to manage a successful club - a few people ruin it for everyone.

there's no overlap among these states?

Again, source please. By my count you have 4 states per your comment.

I'm not disputing that some assholes DO go packing in clubs, but I'd like him to source his claim about the legality thereof mainly because I have a hard time imagining that Florida of all places would be behind the curve on that "gun right"

How does this solve anything? If a person is decent and law-abiding, you've merely restricted their freedom to use their own property. And if a person intends harm with it, the prohibitions you pose make no difference. I don't see that this does anything other than increase the burden on the law-abiding.

(Besides, you'd also have to allow them to be taken to/from shooting ranges, repair shops, etc.)

One question that pops out: how can you take an AR-15 off your property to your place of hunting without having it in your vehicle? Walk ten miles down a major road to your hunting spot? That would indeed raise a red flag or two.

He might be kind of right. Using his Massachusetts example, there is no law specifically barring guns in bars. But if you are found to be carrying while intoxicated, you will lose your license. So I wouldn't expect too many to bring a gun to a bar. Further, pretty much any bar I've ever been in has a no guns policy posted. Many night clubs even have metal detectors.

But what if I want to take it to the range? What if I wan to take it to my family's farm down the road? What if I want to take it to my wife's family farms in Tennessee? What if I wanted to take it to a gun shop? What if I wanted to sell it?

Additionally, if we had a universal background check, there would be no reason to have a registry.

Anyway, I never said I only wanted an AR for hunting or home protection. I got it because I like shooting it.