If your point was that a rich person has more options than a poor person, I don't disagree. In fact, I would simply say "Duh." I was simply making sure it was clear that almost everyone has some ability to make oneself richer. Wealth creates options, but creating options can create wealth, too.
Serious question: Why do you think it is that you didn't say "Duh" several pages ago, when this came up and others didn't believe it was true?
My point simply what I've already stated. The middle class ain't that better off than the poor. You seen the US job number for the past 5 years? There is a shit ton of people that held out and are now working at Walmart.
"Poor", "middle class," etc., are pretty nebulous terms. They can be defined by income, by education status, by economic security,...suitable for whatever position a person wants to push. If you want to be expansive with the definition "poor," you can claim it's economic insecurity. But anyone who isn't independently wealthy has some level of economic insecurity: most people would go under if they were unemployed for an extended period. By that definition, most people are "poor." If you want to be minimalist with the definition, you can claim it's suffering neediness for some essential. Of course, by that definition, very few people are "poor." You won't find many people starving in the streets. Same thing with the middle class. Depending on how you define it, you can claim it's bigger than it's ever been or has profoundly shrunk.
I'm bouncing around on a bus ATM, so I will have to be brief, but the econ bull session is about the most inappropriate thing possible for this thread It solves nothing and clutters up the thread. If I had mod powers n this forum, I'd start handing out warnings. You guys are acting like those divorced couples everyone hates where when the kid comes running up to the parents with blood spurting from an artery, all the parents do is change what they're arguing about instead of getting the kid to the damned doctor.
It ain't what you make......it's how much you go out with. Expert money managers come out ahead no matter what classification you put them in.
Okay, back on topic here. If I don't do the PayPal thing, how else can I get money into the Nova arena in a timely manner?
EDIT: Was posting about the use of the term "middle class", but Tuckerfan is right. This isn't the time or place.
Nova probably wouldn't mind; she likes a good off-topic dustup as much as anybody. Still, we probably should get back to the practical question so it doesn't get lost...
Threads evolve, and this one went in a different direction than its original purpose. This is the Red Room; these things happen. But I agree that this particular thread should stay on topic (though I won't warn anyone for diverging from it). If someone wants to pick this up somewhere else, I'll take it up there.
No warnings, this is the Red Room, but I'll admit, my purpose in placing it here was to ensure more people would see it, not for the sake of thread derailing or argumentation. So, if people want to discuss the economics of working poor, or the contrast between working and middle class, let's get some threads going. This thread, starting with this post, should be seen not so much as a Red Room thread, and more as a group problem solving thread.* Let's figure out how we can help Nova and her family. Personally, i'm reluctant to go the paypal route at the moment because I don't know who if anyone has access to it. I also don't have a good way to communicate with Nova or her wife outside of here or Facebook, neither of which seem like viable options just now. Does anybody have more direct communication access? * will also add a statement about special rules to the OP.
Yeah, ok, I agree. This felt like part of defending Nova when it started, but I agree we're getting off track. Can someone in contact with Nova's family via Facebook or anything else confirm whether PayPal makes sense for them, or what else does?
Last night I posted a message in the FB thread, pointing out they should check the PayPal account when they could. Didn't get a response, when I get home I'll send a direct message. Just called the hospital, she's still in ICU and I got no answer at the waiting room phone. I'll try again in a bit and see if I can get ahold of someone who can ask Tammy about the PayPal account.
I can't do much, and I can't do it soon, but I'll do what I can. Because it's the right thing to do, and because I can.
Will Shep have to blow into a straw to post on WF from now on? Do we have the technology to wire him up like Barclay in the holodeck?
Shit. That's bad. Very, very bad. I don't know anything about Nova's home life, but I know the Wallyworld I worked at had the tendency to drag people in the office and bitch them out over slightly negative stuff they might have posted about Wallyworld. If they're asses at her store, then I can well see them being dicks and hinting that there could be problems with Nova's workman's comp if she didn't remove it. And guys, if there's any way we can move faster on this, we need to. I don't like to drag my personal matters on to the board, but if it'll save Nova's life, then its what I gotta do. Bear in mind I have not read anything Nova's posted on Facebook, the Green Room, or the Blue Room, so there's certainly details which I don't know about her life, however, I do have plenty experience with working at Wallyworld and dealing with a family who has "issues" with who you are. The prevailing attitude among people who're Nova's age, and work at Wallyworld, is that dying is preferable to wracking up huge medical bills. Its primarily men who say this, but I've heard a few women say it as well. Add to this, Aenea's comment that if you support Nova's decision to be a woman, then you're shit on a stick, and I get really twitchy. Because I can tell you what would be running through my mind if I were Nova, right about now: I will never be able to pay for this, if I live, I will be hounded for the rest of my days by these bills. Even worse, though, if Aenea's information is still accurate, then Nova will be thinking: They're throwing out my stuff. At various times in the past, I have found myself in situations where I'm in "bad shape" for one reason or another and have had to rely on family members who don't respect me, for help. This has always turned out to be a very bad situation. When you are helpless (and let's face it, if you've got a broken neck, you're about as helpless as it gets), the absolute one thing you need, more than anything, is for the people around you to respect your dignity. If they don't, then saying you feel like you've been raped is not at all too strong a phrase. So, this is what I see happening: Nova thinking of the kind of financial shithole she's suddenly found herself in, and being extremely depressed about it (as well as knowing that even if she makes a full recovery, she's going to have health issues related to this for the rest of her life), family members saying that "If you weren't a cross-dressing faggot" (or whatever they call her) "this shit wouldn't have happened!" and those material items, which all of us have, that mean a great deal to us, regardless of what kind of price tag they might have once had, being thrown out because our family members think that by tossing those items out, they'll be able to mold us into the kind of person they want us to be, rather than understanding us for who we actually are. I bring this up, because when I was in college, and bouncing around from place to place, I left some items (a concert T-shirt a girlfriend gave me, mementos from the various high school graduation parties I went to, and similar kinds of things) at my father's house. He went through them (without my permission) and proceeded to throw out all of those things (the T-shirt, etc.) because he "didn't think that they were the kind of things that I should own." There is something in Nova's personal belongings which she probably sees as that item which defines her as a "woman," and even if we replace it with an exact duplicate, she'll know the difference. Whatever it is, you can bet that its probably the first thing they'll throw out while Nova's powerless to do anything about it. If we can kick some money in her direction, we won't be able to replace the item we lost, or undo the damage her family has done to her, but we might be able to get her to see that the light at the end of the tunnel is not and oncoming train.
I've communicated with Nova's wife via Facebook PM. I think she is very concerned, very upset, and wants Nova to recover. One of the things she mentioned is that the hospital is somewhat distant and she has no way to easily get there. That was her foremost concern. She's not ready to think beyond the immediacy of needing to be with Nova. People in her church or family will have to solve the transportation problem, but the fact that she is desperate to be able to go to the hospital is fairly meaningful. Also, it has always been my impression that while she does not support the transition, she does not want to have Nova out of her life. She just wants Shepherd, rather than Nova. All of this means I don't think things are as dire as the picture Tuckerfan paints. I dearly hope they aren't. Nevertheless, I think quick action is important. They are going to have bills coming due very soon, and won't have a way to pay them. Ancalagon is investigating the paypal angle. I asked Mrs. Nova for information about her church and pastor, because I think that might be a more useful contact than a thoroughly distraught wife. If she provides the information, I'll approach that angle and see what turns up for suggestions on how we can be most useful.
Okay, folks, I happen to post on a general topic board that is owned by someone who came out a few months ago as a trans individual (I've been posting there for 11 years, and signed up because I knew the owner was an engineer). The owner of the board does support work for folks in the trans community in her area, so I figured she might have some ideas. After filling her in on the details, this is the response I got back: "I put in several calls and messages to folks but no one has any good options. I know of no real good organization in Mississippi, nor any WalMart LGBT organization which I can get to respond to me. I am waiting for a call back from a lady who is trans and out at the WalMart in <location redacted, but not in the same state as Nova>, and no dice. I'm not coming up with good resources. If they are throwing out her clothes, she will probably be so distraught that suicide will be imminent. Eight girls in <near her location> alone have tried to kill themselves or succeeded since October of last year." Bolding is mine. Oh, and any money submitted via PayPal is going to take a week or so to clear. Just an FYI.
Just confirmed with Nova's wife that the paypal account should work. To be honest, I don't know what she meant by that, but maybe it's the way to go for now.
