police shoot bystanders, charge mentally ill man with assault

In most cases that is probably unnecessary.

Sometimes it's pretty easy.

They introduce themselves as "A Good Christian."?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas

I'm going to go out on a limb that these cops not only could recognize the mentally ill, but prey(ed) upon them.

They miss 4 out of 5 shots so they shouldn't even try to kill someone first who is trying to kill them and who may not miss? The second you draw your gun to fire because you are in imminent danger and the person you are shooting is likely armed (if you are a cop/citizen/miltary it doesn't make any difference) what can you do but focus on the threat at that time? And because one hanbgun bullet rarely stops a human sized threat instantly, you have to fire multiple bullets. One shot kills are for TV shows and John Wayne movies.
Many cops get shot/killed in America so the threat is very real. Unfortunate that innocent bystanders get shot, but any time something like this goes down in a crowded area it's a very real possibility.

If police departments made the shooting qualifications harder, they would likely weed out everyone but white males with a lifetime of weapons handling.
Yeah, that would go over well the NAACP, Affirmative Action, etc. etc. In the military the successful combat soldiers skew heavily toward large framed/tall white Southern/rural demographic. At the weapons qualification ranges most of the best shots are white males who grew up shooting and hunting with a wide variety of weapons since childhood. It's not at all uncommon here in Georgia for eight year old kids (with adult supervision) shooting and killing deer with rifles. Their arms aren't long enough for bow hunting, of course.

Good point.

Though to be fair, the Marine Corps used to say that women overall were better shots than men because by and large women didn't come to the Marines with preconceived ideas about how to fire a rifle and thus did things right the first time when trained.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but even in this rural area, I've seen lots of minority males doing stupid things with pistols like holding them sideways (which is asking for trouble from a semi-automatic) because of the "gangbanger" mentality.

The Marines milage may vary, but in The Army the ones who struggle the most (have to shoot over and over to finally qualify) are females, minorities, and short people with (duh) short arms when it comes to the M-16. Short arms are a leverage disadvantage with a long barreled rifle. Using the shorter M-4 helps a lot. My short son found this out when he joined The Army. Pistol shooting (with relatively low recoil weapons) the balance of folks struggling is a little more even.

Which reminds me - it was entertaining as hell to watch my 5-foot-nothing friend shoot my Enfield this last summer.

THat's presuming their victim is trying to kill them in the first place... And where did "draw your gun" come into this? Both examples I've linked to most definitely don't involve the cops being drawn on.

I think the word you're looking for is "unacceptable" that bystanders get shot by the cops, especially when their intended target not only doesn't take a bullet, but also never had a gun in the first place. If a single shot isn't likely to stop an assailant, then maybe it's time to re evaluate the conditions cops are supposed to go their guns.

heh-memories of army cadets and CFB Borden. We had a couple of kids under 100 lbs who'd slip backwards a few inches with every shot.

What do you suggest? An RPG?(Russian for "antitank weapon" IIRC)

Nope... Rocket Propelled Grenade.

RPG doesn't stand for Rocket Propelled Grenade Ed.

Technically we are both partially right and partially wrong Ed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket-propelled_grenade

Proof? Post a link.

Rocket Propelled Grenade, for the intellectually bankrupt.

You didn't even read your own link.

Off of the average cops' utility belt?
in order-
OC spray
Tazer
Tonfa

Before physical confrontation (and obviously as is feasible)?

Communication-i.e. talking them down. Until threatened, most nutters are more of a threat to themselves.

Containing/corraling to isolate the threat to bystanders-granted, this takes at least two or three officers... who are likely already there. Cops here travel in pairs by car, trios or more by bike.

But leave it to you to go exactly in the wrong direction when it comes to not brutalizing people.

Many criminals can and have shrugged off sprays and Tasers (remember Rodney King, two Taser shots didn't do jack to him).

I honestly do not know what Tonfa is.

Not to mention sprays and Tasers are point blank range weapons. Much too close for comfort.

True, there's an english bowdlerizing that conveys the same concept ...
but Dayton used RPG, not РПГ. Defaulting to the english terminology isn't exactly incorrect as phonetically it'd be a PNsP as a direct translation.

I did read it, transliterated, the substitution of letters for other letters... which means РПГ is the Russian acronym. If using the French term you would have "grenade propulsée par fusée" which is GPF, in Spanish you would have "granada propulsada por cohete" or GPC, in German "panzerfaust" which you can make into PZF using the most emphasized consonants.

Nicely done Ed. Next time I shoot you a link to a book to read, I'll send you straight to the adult section.

Did you miss where RPG stands for "ruchnoy protivotankovy granatomyot" and that Rocket Propelled Grenade is a "backronym"?

Tonfa

although you're seeming quite clear that you don't think the cops have a duty to do anything but shoot suspects...

how does this differ from summary executions?

I think if a police officer believes someone is a potential mortal danger to third parties or to the police officers themselves they have a duty to use lethal force if necessary.

At any rate, you choose the people that will serve as your law enforcement officers, train them and then trust their judgment.

No, I didn't. As I explained it is transliterated and a backronym would suggests that to translate it from Russian would mean that using RPG for a Russian term was made to fit the Russian pronunciation instead of the actual spelling.

If you took the spelling and the meaning of panzerfaust you would have "tank fist" so by transliteration you would call the German version "TF".

No. It means that RPG stands for the transliteration, which is "Ruchnoy Protivotankovy Granatomyot" (Russian) and not "Rocket Propelled Grenade" (English).

He just doesn't want to admit that Dayton is right. Even after Dayton offered to say they were both right and wrong.

I'm not saying the police departments just make their shooting qualifications harder, they also, and more importantly, need to to increase the quality of their training. If you are going to be trusted by the public to carry a weapon in the name of protecting the public, you should have more than a weekend at the range during training and a softball re-qualification shoot every 6 months.

I'm pulling a Dayton, and I will bash him over the head with my opinion until it is the only one remaining.