Progressive messaging in media.

Sure but women got to be bimbos, overlooked, condescended to, and treated as a pair of boobs that should be seen and not heard. What more do you want in @Uncle Albert 's world? Women who are not like that are just bitches none of the incels like, and it has been pissing them off for years that they have been written as anything more than an emotional crybaby who just needs a good hot dicking and a smack every so often.

Why should we ever have diversity with writing like that?

"Lovable asshole with a few rough edges" characters who are also female include:

• Dr. Pulaski from TNG (and also Dr. T'Ana from Lower Decks, but let's face it, she's just Pulaski as a cat)
• Arguably, Starbuck from BSG (although we see a lot more vulnerability from her than characters of that archetype usually exhibit)
• My personal favorite, Diana Trent from Waiting for God.

But they are definitely far less common than male examples of the trope, and the differences between how Pulaski and the very similar McCoy were received have been discussed here.

I wouldnt call those characters “lovable” but I dont find that stuff amusing anyway. I watch Archer because I like Lana.

When they lead their promotions their "wokeness," it's a safe bet they know they've made a turd and are trying to preemptively insulate it from criticism. Doubly so if they try to make a federal case out of a few mean tweets to try to ride the manufactured controversy into some less dismal viewership numbers. They're showing a lack of confidence in their own product. Which is also why they prefer to ride the coattails of successful IPs over banking on their chances of creating entirely new "woke " content. At the end of the day, they still need to pay the bills.

But you'll show them!! You're on a noble heroic quest to make the world better, and aren't a pile of shit at all!

yup... paint by numbers pop culture is just DYING from all the wimminz and brown peeple

"ride the coat tails"... of what, exactly? It's not like risky original story structure has ever been part of the equation... why make a federal case of it now?

There is no VIRTUE in pretending a shitshow isn't terrible.

Mister Youtube Man said it in an angry voice, so it must really be dangerous, and desperate, and dire.

Of popularity, obviously. You are trying way too hard to pretend you don't get my meaning, just to leave an opening to respond to something I didn't say.

Cuz that's what people who disagree with you are doing.
That's ALL it could be.

UA- Stop putting words in my mouth!!

Also UA- Now hold still while I put these words in your mouth.

I do notice how UA and @Bill Carson are fine and supportive of anti-semetic, homophobic, sexist, and racist messaging in media. You would think inclusion would not be so much worse than the hate speech, but for some reason the tradition of hate speech is what they care so much about.

Let me solve that puzzle pat.

Oh, if you object to that shit, then it's "you're too PC" "you hate free speech" and "you're scared of challenging ideas".
Y'know, the challenging advanced math that shores up color prejudice and Jewish blood libel.
Stephen Hawking strained on that shit.

We've never pretended you aren't terrible.

It is scary how many white dems fall for the trick of saying non-racist is PC or woke, and then turning those into negative descriptions. Then the dems freak the fuck out and try to pretend they are not PC or woke which really is them trying to pretend they are actually racist.

If woke and PC is being non-racist and liking things that are non-WASPy then why would I be offended by them calling me that? It is like people trying to insult me by calling me a girl or a cocksucker. Like I am supposed to freak the fuck out about the truth. It is not like I sucked UAs cock, or ever would. That would be something sick and disgusting.

no dumbass, I get your meaning.
I just get to wondering why A is a weak and woke copy of B, but B is okay despite being the same damn story as C-Z.
And of course there's openings to respond to what you leave out either intentionally or from plain old ignorance.

Oh... and of course the shit you pull out of your ass... but that's a whole other thing.

That's projecting. You accuse me of what you do yourself.

I don't have the energy to lawyerball every syllable against the distortions of disingenuous bullshitters. If you can't confine yourself to the clear meaning of my words, that's your problem. Just don't think you're fooling anyone.

All that diaper wetting over women and minorities must've tuckered you out something awful.

Really? "I know you are but what am I"? The fuckin' Pee-Wee defense?
Garamet really had you pegged.

Do not even pretend like that isn't the go-to for you and half this fucking board. In this case, you are projecting. You would have to stand mute if you were forbidden from putting words in peoples' mouths.

No, I'm pretty sure it's @Jenee that does the pegging.

yet you can come up with such delightful word salads like "When they lead their promotions their "wokeness," it's a safe bet they know they've made a turd and are trying to preemptively insulate it from criticism. Doubly so if they try to make a federal case out of a few mean tweets to try to ride the manufactured controversy into some less dismal viewership numbers."

Other than the obvious that you don't like them reskinning the protagonists in the same damn thing everytime, storywise, where's the beef?

The meaning is clear. Buy a goddamn thesaurus and then fuck yourself with it.

I actually like The Orville. I watched the pilot episode out of curiosity expecting not to like it. I don't like that type of humor but the look of the production had me intrigued. The pilot did have some of that type of humor and it was a bit off-putting but it was minimal. The final scene is what hooked me to see more. There was very interesting story that was there for a supposed parody show. As I watched the episodes I began to feel that the humor wasn't going to last. Over the three seasons, it did keep some humor but it became more serious. There were some "messages" I didn't care for but overall I like what is being done and that surprised me.

It sure is, Racey McRacist.

The third season of Orville had some of the best sci-fi I've seen on TV in a long-ass time. The pilot episode is very different from the rest of the show. They end up straying away comedy/parody pretty quickly (almost as if Seth MacFarlane had to sell FOX execs on "Family Guy In Space"). Sure, there are still occasional comedy bits, but it's not the focus (kind of like in TNG).

so just another meaningless rant where you aren't even clear what you're angry about? (but as usual expect others to make the effort to decipher what it is for you)

I never made it that far... think I made most of season 1.
There were a couple of good takes... the 2D space episode was a neat idea and well visualized and Bortas story was kind of gutsy.

But as a TNG knock off it brought nothing particularly new to the genre, and as stated, I don't really enjoy Seth MacFarlane.

The writing of Titans does often suck in ways that have nothing to do with alleged wokeness. Too often the powers that be forget that the Titans are a team and try to center it around Nightwing and trying to do quasi-Batman stuff. There is probably no universe in which the Scarecrow and Jason Todd could be fitting villains for a team that includes Superboy, but the incarnation of the villains that we got were particularly weak. Titans' incarnation of Batman/Bruce Wayne is probably the worst serious adaptation in the character's history.

I think that we have to realize that renewal in and of itself is not guaranteed to have a relationship to quality. There are plenty of quality series that have gotten canceled after one or two seasons, and plenty of shows that keep churning out mediocre stuff year after year after year.