I mentioned once that I collect quotes from various sources. Some are from people I know personally, some are from unknown sources, a lot are from books I read. Some are even from posters here and at TNZ. When I mentioned that, someone suggested I make a thread on it. I believe it was Lanz who made the suggestion, and I'm pretty sure the suggestion was to put it in Media Central. Then, I never got around to making the thread. But I finally decided the time has come, and also decided I would put it right here, because a lot of the quotes have to do with politics and a lot of others have to do with religion. So putting it in MC would prevent a lot of people from being able to respond the way they really want to. I won't give the names of the people quoted when the sources are remarks made live by people I know, who don't post here. If it's from a book, or a movie, or if it's something someone already put on line, then it's fair game to quote the author by name. Furthermore, no one can get any personal information about me by knowing what books I've read or knowing that I read some of what is posted on Wordforge. So, with all of that, let's get started with a first handful of quotes:
As a practical matter, "comes" should be replaced with "should come." Which evokes the ever-present struggle between what is collectively demanded and what is individually desired. Very true. If futures can be chosen, who else but men could do it? This quote seems to suggest a better alternative, but it would either rely on something above men or preclude anyone from choosing, and I don't see how either of those are likely to produce better outcomes. (Although, since it's an Asimov quote, I guess I shouldn't allow that, in context, something superior to man exists.)
These two are quotes from two friends of mine, both referring to someone else without naming the source. It seems pretty obvious that they were both referring to the same original quote, but I don't know what it was. Anyone know? And here's one I like very well, about hierarchical systems (despite the sloppy grammar of using "that" in place of "who" for a person):
also by RAH “I never learned from a man who agreed with me.” “Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid).” “I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” “One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.” “It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” (this one has to go in the sig line!) “Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” “The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.” Among a great many others.
Nova, John Castle: Do you have sources for those quotes? Some of them look extremely interesting and worth adding to the collection.
"Dignity is overrated" The chorus in "Real Men of Genius:" Mr. Overly Enthusiastic Touch Football Player"
sounds a bit like Heinlein is cribbing Henry Ford's "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." while has more than a bit in common with ah well, "to steal one idea is plagiarism, but to steal many is research."
so we're getting a bit of a hint that Heinlein never actually said anything that hadn't been said better before by someone else?
I googled up a RAH quote page...the one I used didn't cite the work each came from which is a drawback but I figure there's a source that does out there somewhere
A lot of good stuff in here, but this one is rubbish (with all due respect to Heinlein): which shows a pretty poor understanding of the concept of "sin". One of the most fundamental qualities of sin is that it hurts yourself by damaging your relationship with God. All of my serious quotation files seem to be buried, off-computer, in the general mess, and likewise with the books. I'll scrape together a few, though:
Yes and no. Heinlein's point is that something is not sin if it only hurts you. Your point is that sin hurts you. Both are true, but they are not contradictory. Heinlein is in fact channeling St. Augustine, who said "Love, and do as thou wilt." Since Jesus and Paul both sum up the whole law in terms of loving God and loving others, and since loving God in practice is loving others, there is a lot of truth in what Heinlein wrote. In terms of whether or not you let God have a meaningful place in your life, it is perhaps true that you can find sin in something that does not specifically harm others. But if you don't want the God whose law is summed up by love for others to have a meaningful place in your life, I don't really see how you can live in a way that doesn't harm others. And in terms of our behavior, the actions that make up our life, I think the principle is wise, and is a good test of whether or not a given course of action is acceptable.
the VAST majority of great quotes, insightful wisdom, and the like are re-wording of things said before. What's the likelihood that a 20th century figure is going to come up with something no one ever thought of before? What makes them memorable is HOW they (the common ideas) are phrased.
I don't think RAH subscribed to a belief in God, or at least not the one offered by organized religion. Thus he wasn't speaking of the official definition of Sin, but what he thought was the actual reality (and using the word "sin" as a catchall for "immoral" i expect)
"The legacy of western civilizations, ever since we climbed out of the primordial ooze, is that man advances by teamwork and leadership. Otherwise, you take on the world by your lonesome. Rugged individualism is overrated. No law, no bosses, then no progress."
