Hear me, forgistas! Further to the Big loser! So sad! thread, don't be reassured by the fact that Republican congressmen around the country are being handed their heads, even in Alabama. Rather, think of the Reichstag Fire and how it was used. Then recall the fact that Dubbya was sagging badly in the polls mere months after his "election". Then the sorry bonehead got the break of his sorry life: 911. It took him years to work his way back down to richly deserved unpopularity. Anyway, you see how we homo sapiens behave --- in times of crisis we huddle around the tribal leader, who gets to pose as Churchillian Wartime President. So, what d'yall think is soon going to happen? Islamowackjobs --- who would like nothing better than an apocalyptic, end-of-times, knock-down-drag-out Total-Ultimate War with the Western Infidel --- can see the potential here as well as you and I. Their allies, of course, are the "Christian" Wackjobs so prominent in US redneck politics. And outright fascists like Bannon. So if ISIS drags its feet, they'll give them a helping hand. Yes, these fuckers are crazy. Crazy like a fox. Just so we all recognize it when it comes.
Why do the liberals have this obsession with fascism? But apparently only when a Republican is president. I can remember in 1981 a letter in the Arkansas Gazette (it was a very liberal paper when it was in business) with someone speculating that Reagan was going to suspend national elections in the near future. I remember the same stuff when George W. Bush was president. Eight years for each and things like that never happened though. Why the obsession?
Only the extreme left ever seriously entertained the notion of Reagan or Bush turning into another Hitler. Trump OTOH counts among his most ardent supporters people who openly proclaim their desire for another Hitler to seize power.
Oh, let's see, fascists were authoritarian and nationalist, the hard right is authoritarian and nationalist, fascists were race supremacists, conservatives are class supremacists....oh, no, the comparison isn't valid at all, you're as innocent as doves.
Yes indeed. That's the trouble with crying wolf by calling every rightwing dingbat who comes along a "fascist". It causes semantic inflation and the term gets cheapened. Then, when a real fascist appears, you don't have a term to use. Besides "fuckhead" or whatever.
The last Republican I was seriously worried about as a fascist was Bush Jr, because he really stood up there and said "If you aren't with us, you're against us" and American feeling at the time of 9/11 was "fuck outsiders, we can handle you all" - I even posted a "hang on guys, help is coming!" message on an older Trek forum when UK search and rescue teams were headed to the US after the attack and got a "we don't fucking need your help" in return. That mood was scary, because Bush could have chosen to hit anyone post 9/11 and he'd have gotten away with it. Luckily, he "just" chose to fuck up Iraq for embarrassing his pa. Reagan got stick for being a warmonger in the UK media but I never believed it. Nor Bush Sr. But Trump? He's a thin-skinned narcissist who only cares about those close to him because they feed his ego. He'll sell the US to the fascists backing him in a heartbeat.
True, the weeks and months immediately following 9/11 were a scary time. There was a lot of anger, and some disturbingly authoritarian developments. Anybody remember Total Information Awareness? Still, the worst fears were never realized, and people eventually settled down. Anybody seriously doubt that if Trump and Bannon were gifted a major attack they would milk it for all it was worth?
Neither Donald not Dubbya are ideologues -- not much anyway. The former just wants to give his ego a good wanking and the latter doesn't possesss the bandwidth needed for ideology. But Donald is totally amoral, and he's surrounded himself with True Ideologues like Bannon. I'm sure Bannon is to Donald as Cheney was to Boy George. Anyway, they ain't doin' too well out of the starting gate. So they need a 911 to weld the nation behind them. That's the way our tribal species works. And I can't believe that either ISIS (or whoever) will hand it to them on a plate or, failing that, that they'll arrange it themselves. Easily done ---- look at Erdogan. So far Dayton, Dindins and T.R have rated this thread stoooopid. Well, I'll be right back in their faces when the deal goes down. If we're all still here.
So basically it comes down to this: You are PREEMPTIVELY labelling any major terrorist or military attack on the U.S. as some kind of "false flag" operation designed to rally the American people behind the Trump admin.?
Ignorant. The line "you are either with us or against us" was specifically aimed at Musharraf, the dictator of Pakistan at the time, because he was waffling. Saying in public he wanted to help but behind the scenes obstructing everything he could. It was based in a specific ultimatum delivered to him personally which detailed specific actions he had to do with in a specific time frame or else the US would declare war on Pakistan. This was right after 9/11 and India was very gun ho about possibly getting to settle disputes with Pakistan. Shortly after that statement there was a meeting in India with US, UK. Indian, and Pakistani officials where Pakistan caved completely and the Indian PM was quoted leaving saying "the threat of a general war in South Asia has now passed." Please learn context because it actually matters.
Don't forget Bush is also the one who said, "The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." Suffice to say, no such similar sentiments will be uttered by Trump, or any current Republican leader for that matter.
Please learn that people are emotional creatures who may not understand context, and when a good proportion of the world is against military action and the 400lb gorilla grunts "you are either with me or against me" instead of eloquently stating "Pakistan is foot-dragging on this and we're not having it" those emotional folk might just get a tad antsy.
Yet it was leftists in the USSR, China, Vietnam and North Korea that's killed the most people in human history.
It's no challenge (for those with the eyes to see) to realize that Stalinism and Maoism ended up being profoundly fascistic. And North Korea is easily the most fascist state on Earth. So, farmer, what's your point??
Notice you weren't able to plausibly go "nuh uh!!", to the authoritarianism, nationalism, and class supremacy.
Leftists have inevitable fascist tendencies. And in fact generally become more fascist than the worst fascist regimes.
you get pulled out of economic depressions? Infrastructure and technology develop rapidly? civil rights are extended to those previously disenfranchised? the US occupies a position of respect in the international community? What?
That's right, I invented Russia! And I would have got away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling rednecks!
I agree. Nobody should be in power too long. That's why term limits are such a good idea. Anyway, Stalin, Mao, Ho, Kim et al were not Swedish Social Democrats. They were bloody-minded revolutionaries. As Mao said: "Power comes out of the barrel of a gun." And, as the old saying goes, the political spectrum is really circular --- the further you get to the two extremes, the more they resemble each other. All of which obliges us to moderate our language.
