Samuel Clemens Turning Over In His Grave!!!

You're not trying to prove the big bang theory. Those are the only sources in which you're going to find members of the rank and file who will admit to the behavior you're claiming.

I think this thread should be allowed to stand since the other thread title isn't remotely indicative of the subject matter.

Oh and, this is stupid.

And rot!

I think he's being, y'know... satirical.

You're awfully disturbed by the tiny percentage of viewers that didn't get the joke about Archie. In fact, you sound a lot like Spaceturkey's analysis of Mike here by claiming to know just how many people did and didn't get it.

The thing about AITF was that it was so obvious. Especially at the time it wouldn't have made it to network TV without having appealed to most everyone's sensibility that they were in on the joke and that, most likely, their neighbor was the one being made fun of.

This thread stays, the other is closed. This one had many more responses so I think that's the better way to go...

This.



People, why not make your thread titles reflect the subject in the thread? Having a descriptive thread title keeps duplicate threads from arising and dividing what could otherwise be a lively discussion!

On topic:

It is a travesty to censor Twain's work. If you don't have enough IQ to put the story in its proper context and to--heaven forbid!--read the word "nigger" without losing all control of yourself, then don't pick up the fucking book in the first place. You should be sticking to your first grade reader.

Imagine 100, 200 years from now, and layer-upon-layer of politically correct revisions have accumulated on the works of literature. Not only will this signal a loss of the creative output of the original author, but the book will no longer convey information about the time in which the author created it. Maybe some future totalitarian state can fix it so that 1984 has a happy ending.

Shit, you might as well translate Shakespeare into plain, modern English and burn all the copies in that old, outdated Elizabethan style...

See, first you're supposed to demand "legitimate" sources. Then you're supposed to dismiss them with "statistics can prove anything you want them to prove."

Then you're supposed to wait for the other person to post more drill-down anecdotal sources.

Only then are you supposed to do a Nelson.

"HA-HA, you posted a blog! You posted a BLOG! Stupid librul!"



You didn't wait.

You're not very good at this, are you?

Oh, not pointing that out. Everybody that knows anything about AITF already knew that.

It's just so fucking awesome that garamet went all Meathead Stivic on us just inches away from your excellent character analysis.

Link?

A link showing where you are a self-righteous, condescending ass with a misplaced superiority complex?

Well alrighty then...

http://www.wordforge.net

"Twain expert" ?
I'd like to argue that fact.

you'd think an expert on Twain would know better than to fuck around with the point of his works...

FTFY.

And Bowdler tried that in the 19th century, but it wasn't the only version available, and has long since been forgotten. Yes, this sort of thing is a travesty, but unless every other version - whether it's Shakespeare, Twain, or the Bible - is gathered up and destroyed, or simply denied access, a la Lady Chatterley in this country for almost 30 years, the unexpurgated versions will survive.

The real question is, how many kids actually read Twain to begin with?

fourth grade here.

don't rightly remember how they called Jim though. I do recall the teacher using "Negro" to explain some of the spirituals we learned in music though.

Ah, well, Canadian schools, eh? Better overall than in the United States Rights in all respects.

Injun Joe is called Injun Joe, and Jim is referred to in the third person as a nigger. I don't recall any of the characters actually calling him that to his face, though.

Fiction has to be understood in the context of the time in which it was written. This is how people talked. It shouldn't be tampered with, and a good teacher/parent can set the stage by explaining the context.



It's a shame that there's almost universal Red Room agreement that censoring Twain is a bad idea, but some of the TightyRighties are so caught up in their own agenda that they're incapable of acknowledging that.

I guess it's the idea that it's a Noble Private Enterprise[tm] presuming to play nanny that has them all confused.

Another point of order: Isn't this book in the public domain? You really can't get rid of the original version because if we wanted to we could pass the hat and publish an edition of it with all kinds of swear-y goodness. So what's the harm?

It really comes down to how many parents/school systems opt to order this version instead of the cheapo bulk-order paperbacks, and that ultimately depends on the cover price.

Should be an interesting exercise in market dynamics.

True enough, but what about the damage done to the kids who read the Bowdlerized versions, who will wrongly assume that values now and values then were the same?

Don't know, but I read 'Tom Sawyer' in junior high not that many years ago...

I, for one, look forward to today's "Tom Sawyer."

It is just more of her elitist bullshit. She once again is presenting herself as being intellectually superior when she isn't.

Well, I guess if anyone would know, it would be you.

Naturally you'd find the Ohio State report disturbing, but it's not a "she."

I hear he's a modern-day warrior with a mean, mean stride.

To my knowledge the only people who believe that Colbert is the type of person Margaret is accusing people of are the Democratic members of the 111th Congress that ordered him to provide "expert" testimony on illegal aliens.

[YT="Tom Sawyer?"]jRuVCW0JQQ8[/YT]

THEN DON'T READ THE OHIO STATE REPORT!!!! DON'T READ IT!!! YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY ACQUIRE SOME KNOWLEDGE.

Your deliberate ignorance is appalling.

Did read (some of) it, wasn't impressed by the evidence, conclusion, nor the small sampling (n=330ish).

Fair enough. I just didn't think *anyone* in the Information Age would be that gullible.

Only found credentials listed for the guy, says he has an MA. Presuming the other two are undergrads or something. Found their two names collaborating on a couple of similar studies... seemed about the same topic and sampling for whatever that's worth.

Seems audience studies cited showed the exact opposite with Archie Bunker. The right got him and the left simply saw him as the bad guy. Would've been neat to see their reactions to George and/or Henry Jefferson.

No, it's a horrible idea. Now we've gone from revising history to revising literature.

Twain wrote what he wrote in the context of his time and it's a classic. Leave it alone.