SARS II: Respiratory Boogaloo

And I myself have said that way back in this thread. The most likely scenario is that the Chinese got sloppy and the virus, which they admit they were studying coronavirus along with the bats, got loose from the lab. The virus was not modified or created by the Chinese but it did originate from the lab.

To save face of course the Chinese would never admit something like that publicly so they blamed it on the wet market that was down the street from the lab.

It's part of the reason China refused anyone from the outside to come look at the lab. It's why they hid the outbreak for two months. It's why they refuse to identify patient zero.

They don't want the world to know that they accidentally started this whole thing by being sloppy.

Actually, if you accept the Biblical story at face value, he went out after about a year locked up inside. The 40 days was just how long it rained.

Okay. I didn't know it was a year. Man that ark must have stunk by the end of the year.

Well I don't think we will make it a year based on the protests breaking out around the country and while the media and the Democrats might want to push the "it's all Republicans protesting" line it's people from all sides that are getting fed up with the lock down.

Viruses originate in China due to the proximity to wild and domestic animals. Farms, wet markets and illegal trade in wild animals.

Yes it's overdue for change, but so are our meat factories.

Sure do. It's also possible it did start in the Wet Market.

China's actions however point to a slightly more likely scenario that it started in the lab by accident.

And given that China has been lying about everything else about the virus them saying it came from the wet market doesn't hold much water.

Sorry. The simplest and historical paths for pathogens to make the leap from animals to humans is more likely.

But don't let me dissuade you from listening to your social media experts.

ETA:
It isn't OMG HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?!!!!

It's been said for decades that the next bad virus will originate in China. Africa beat them to the punch with Ebola, but that was a little too lethal.

Covid-19 is juuuuuust right in terms of kill rate and being highly communicable.

It's TG it isn't worse!

If you're aware enough to know that there's a protest going on and can slap together a sign which is closely associated with one of the darkest events in the 20th Century, you're aware enough to know that people are likely to think anyone holding such a sign is endorsing the people who came up with that slogan.

And this comment tells me you're just arguing reflexively and not really thinking about things. Because the arguments broke down between those who said that no matter what the context was, it was never a racist gesture, while others said that, yes, context did matter, and if the gesture was being flashed by someone waving a Nazi flag, it was a racist gesture.

Except I have seen people here arguing the former many times.

Again, a bit of a stretch. Assuming she knew that there was a slogan above concentration camp gates but didn't know the meaning, it is highly unlikely she would have memorized the phrase (it not being in a language she spoke), so she would have had to Google it.

In both a normal search window and an Incognito window, when you type in "concentration camp sign" (without the quote marks) this is what you get.


The photograph isn't exactly clear, but as you can see from the text, not only does the slogan appear in the original German, but it is followed immediately by an English translation. To me, that makes it a little harder to argue she was ignorant of the meaning. But who knows? Maybe she uses Bing and it gives different results. In either case, I think that we can both agree, bringing such a sign to this type of a protest is a really dumb fucking thing to do.

I can't find it now, but there's a page out there that has someone talking about how they showed Ken Ham's idea of how waste was handled on the Ark to an engineer. Said engineer nearly had a stroke looking at it since the first thing that he noticed was with such a system there was no way the Ark could remain afloat.

WTF?

This was in the media. Media you support. As early as late January there were articles on the possibility that the virus got loose from the lab accidentally.

And "The simplest and historical paths for pathogens to make the leap from animals to humans is more likely" of course this line is true but are you claiming that the virus couldn't leap from the bats being studied in the lab to the humans studying those same bats and the coronavirus in the lab?

No idea who Ken Ham is but even I know the best method for dealing with waste on something like the Ark which is the most likely method Noah used.

Toss it overboard. Not like there would be anyone to complain about the mess. God can't even complain since he's the one that fucked the world up and told Noah to build the ark in the first place.

"possibility". No one is saying it's likely other than trumpistas.

Coronavirus did not jump from Wuhan's seafood market: Here's the evidence
Is the SARS-CoV-2 a 'chimera virus' made in the lab? A virologist's warning

The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in the central Chinese city of Wuhan, was shut on January 1, 2020 by Chinese authorities.

The common narrative told to us by the WHO, who got their information from Chinese authorities, is that the market was “ground zero”, or origin, of the novel coronavirus outbreak. The story has been told that the virus jumped from bats to humans, with the “patient zero” being identified as a shrimp vendor in that wet market.

Chinese scholars saw otherwise.

Here's a Q&A, with answers based on available, published papers:

Q: Did the SARS-CoV-2 virus jump from animals (believed to be bats, and other 'intermediate hosts') to humans in Wuhan’s Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market?
No. Clinical data from China clearly dispute this claim. Chinese authorities and experts are at odds about the real origin of the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.

Q: What’s the evidence showing where it started?
At least two clinical studies, published six days apart in January 2020 (January 24 and January 30, 2020) disprove this Huanan-Seafood-Wholesale-Market-was-the-origin-of-SARS-CoV-2 narrative.

The studies were prepared by top-level Chinese clinical researchers.

Q: Who are the researchers?
They are mostly Chinese medical doctors and clinicians. The first group, published a study in The Lancet on January 24, 2020, studied 41 patients — and showed that only 27 of the 41 initial patients confirmed to have contracted the infection, then known as 2019-nCoV, were exposed to Huanan market.

This study was funded by Ministry of Science and Technology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, National Natural Science Foundation of China, and the Beijing Municipal Science and Technology Commission.

A second team, which published their work in The Lancet on January 30, 2020, studied 99 patients, all confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV, in Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital from January 1 to January 20, 2020.

All cases were confirmed by real-time RT-PCR, the most reliable RNA/DNA-based test today.

Of the 99 patients in the second study (with “2019-nCoV pneumonia”, later known as SARS-CoV-2), only 49 (49%) had a history of exposure to the Huanan seafood market.

Interestingly, it did not identify the geographical origins of the 50 other cases. The second was authored by the following:

• Prof Nanshan Chen, MD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Prof Min Zhou, MD - Department of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, Ruijin Hospital, Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai, China
• Xuan Dong, PhD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Prof Jieming Qu, MD - Ruijin Hospital, Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai, China
• Fengyun Gong, MD - Infection Disease Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Yang Han, PhD - Science and Education Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Prof Yang Qiu, PhD - State Key Laboratory of Virology, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Center for Biosafety Mega-Science, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China
• Jingli Wang, MD - Infection Disease Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Ying Liu, MD - The Office of Drug Clinical Trial Institution, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Yuan Wei, MD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Jia'an Xia, MD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Ting Yu, MD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China
• Prof Xinxin Zhang, MD - Research Laboratory of Clinical Virology, Ruijin Hospital and Ruijin Hospital North, Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai
• Prof Li Zhang, MD - Tuberculosis and Respiratory Department, Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Dongxihu District, Wuhan

Link to the full text of The Lancet paper.

Q: What do the numbers mean?
It means NO scientific evidence supports the claim that SARS-CoV-2 (virus that causes COVID-19) came from the Wuhan market. The market's shrimp vendor identified as "patient zero", is just a descriptive phrase that holds no scientific value.

In the initial clinical research prepared by top Chinese experts (Prof. Choalin Huang, Dr Yeming Wang and Prof. Xingwang Li) in the The Lancet, only 27 patients (66 per cent) of initial 41 found cases were known to have had exposure to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale market.

The rest, 33 per cent, were not.

Q: Why is it wrong to say the novel coronavirus came from Wuhan market?
It's misleading. The clinical data does not support such claim, 2 million people had been infected and nearly 130,000 dead, many of them buried in mass graves.

If it's not mass murder, caused by this unseen enemy, then the phrase has no meaning. It has shut down the world, too, to say nothing about the reported long-term damage to the lungs of those who recovered.

Indeed, the Chinese researchers themselves cited major "gaps" in their study, saying: "Major gaps in our knowledge of the origin, epidemiology, duration of human transmission, and clinical spectrum of disease need fulfilment by future studies."

Q: How different is the novel coronavirus (SARS-Cov-2) from SARS-CoV(1) and MERS, and how deadly is the new virus to humans?
They're all deadly. The Chinese clinicians identified two highly pathogenic viruses, SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, as they cause severe respiratory syndrome in humans. In contrast, they also mentioned four other human coronaviruses (HCoV-OC43, HCoV-229E, HCoV-NL63, HCoV-HKU1), which only induce mild upper respiratory disease.

https://gulfnews.com/lifestyle/heal...p-annihilates-a-virus-1.1585140805837?slide=2

Gulf news?

Please try again.

Did you read the journal?

There's nothing to indicate ground zero other than the market.

He’s the guy that built the giant Ark in BFE, KY.

Fact check it, but my understanding is that "wet markets" still exist. If the CCP really believed this virus originated there those markets would've been gone since last November, Dec. at latest.

Just as we know that CCP is complicit in (and at least tacitly approves of) tens of thousands of US fentanyl-related deaths each year, because they continue permit the billion dollar enterprise to persist in their country.

It was a rare case of shoddy thinking when CCP banned travel from Wuhan domestically to locations within China, while permitting international flights from Wuhan to the rest of the world to continue. [Again, happy to be fact checked on that.]

White House Bars Fauci From Testifying: 'Counterproductive'
House Appropriations Committee wanted COVID expert to speak on administration's virus response

An equally valid perspective there is that US demand is responsible for a vast illegal enterprise on Chinese soil, much as the Mexican cartels pretty much exist to service the US market.

Like the old opium trade in reverse.

I check the first cited source, see it says nothing of the kind, and find that "Gulf News" remains true to its name, with a huge gulf separating its articles from the news they claim to represent.

The excuse is he's too busy fighting the virus to testify, but Trump has no issues making him hang around the White House for a coupla hours a day for his COVID updates campaign rallies.

Some related medical news.

Inject it into me, right now!!!

When I was a young 'un, we had a little pool at every public swimming pool that you had to walk through first. It was heated to kill the virus that causes verrucas.

If only someone then had told me that walking through the verruca pool was fascism.

well this seems ironic to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...ronavirus-spreads/ar-BB13vC7h?ocid=spartandhp

How could this happen when we have the greatest healthcare system in the world?

Gov. J.B. Prtizker is Jewish...
So the optics aren't in favour of the woman in the picture...

Coronavirus NSW: Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/c...m/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60

China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.

The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China.

It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.

It can also be revealed the Australian government trained and funded a team of Chinese scientists who belong to a laboratory which went on to genetically modify deadly coronaviruses that could be transmitted from bats to humans and had no cure, and is not the subject of a probe into the origins of COVID-19.

As intelligence agencies investigate whether the virus inadvertently leaked from a Wuhan laboratory, the team and its research led by scientist Shi Zhengli feature in the dossier prepared by Western governments that points to several studies they conducted as areas of concern.

Better. Still, it's a tabloid with questionable credibility, and nowhere does it give evidence for it having leaked from a lab.

But it does say:

Scientific consensus is that the virus came from a wetmarket. But the US’s top spy agency confirmed on the record for the first time yesterday that the US intelligence committee is investigating whether COVID-19 was the result of an accident at a Wuhan laboratory.
​

No evidence it was leaked from a lab, just that the US intelligence committee is investigating. I wonder what that is? Could it be the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence? I wonder who runs such a committee at whose behest, hmmmm?

I'm guilting of skimming articles to find quotes that support my viewpoint. I promise to do better if you do.

Meh, it's only a little worse than the flu....



https://science.sciencemag.org/cont...YuInA6EiVemBjt-r8JQfxB2Q89XSdsjdTR3FiTc2U_Qew

Where's @Tuttle ?