Seeking WF's opinion on buying a new car

Wow Chris, you really don't have any clue how to market a product, do you? Don't quit your day job.

I never said they were stupid.

I said they made an error (two actually, if you count Project Genesis) and they're working to solve the problem, but that they should've never allowed the error to exist in the first place because it costs money to invest in new dealerships and models when they could've just managed their marketing better.

Just one freakin' page ago you told me that most of the cars were already produced by Toyota, and are sold under it's name in other countries.

And new dealerships? I have yet to see a Scion store on it's own. It's always Toyota/Scion.

I honestly can't believe a GM man is saying Toyota made an error in having a whoping THREE brands!!!

Or you, yours.

I've given up on him. There is no point in trying to explain basic concepts like branding and segmenting your market are lost on him.

Hell here was an actual conversation from upthread:
FLASHLIGHT: I was thinking of getting a Dodge Charger. What do you all think?
CHRIS: You should get a Pontiac G8.
FLASHLIGHT: I looked around. They don't have any G8s for sale in this state. Nissan makes a nice looking car though.
CHRIS: Eh, Nissan doesn't have as nice an interior as the G8. You should get a G8.
ME:

If a concept like I CANNOT BUY THIS CAR BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY FOR SALE is over his head, explaining something like smart business practices is probably a lost cause.

Lexus is acceptable, it's mission was clearly separate from the parent Toyota brand.

Personally, I'm not at ease with Pontiac and Chevrolet still fighting for the same segment.

(should this be renamed : chris : ?)

He said they'll be there in a week. I didn't think he needed a car ASAP.

:chris3:

Wait, why am I defending myself to you monkeys? I'm going to dinner.

Warned. Nick told you to knock it off.

Do you really want another warning?

Do it again and I'll go back and warn you for every comment in this thread I find the least bit objectionable.

Don't do me any favors. Beat me with the nightstick if you think it's appropriate.

:flow2: So, um... how about a thread move to the RR?

You need to be beat with a logic stick, not a night stick.

p.s. How was dinner?

Nope. We have fora besides The Red Room for a reason.

Yes, but this thread was in the Red Room before it was moved (ironically just about the time it started moving towards Red Room content). And any discussion about cars amongst men is likely to wind up RR anyhow. Finally, if we'd stayed on Flashlight's original topic this would've been a short, boring thread.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the "supposed" jury,

Elwood moved this thread on Post 16. This is a documented fact.

Cass' post, being the 11th post in this thread, happened before Elwood moved the thread. This is also a fact.

Now, I would submit that since said Post 11 constitutes clearly Red Room behavior, therefore it was improper to move the thread from the Red Room.

And if the Court will not entertain this argument I shall have no recourse except to present the "Chewbacca Defense".

So, rather than continue the thread, you choose to bitch about moving the thread.

Just sayin'...

Well, I went to Outback.

Now I'm back, and Flashy has no questions.

That's correct, the dealership told me they'd be here in another week. And no, there's no urgency to this, I don't need a new car immediately.

Here's a question:

Could you or someone else explain the apparently relationship between Toyota, Lexus and the Scion?

Anyway, since talking to my neighbor, my mind is almost made up to go with either Toyota or Honda. I'll wait another week to look at the G8's, because you're recommending them so highly, but the case he made for reliability and resale value were pretty convincing. And it confirmed most everything I'd heard from other sources. You see lots of used cars for sale, but not many of them are Hondas or Toyotas. They get driven for a long, long time, and then they're passed down from adults to the kids.

As for the Charger, he told me it isn't a car he'd buy, it's a car he'd use as a rental.

BTW - this is now the longest thread in the history of the Gold Room. I seem to have a knack for long threads, don't I?

Well, I thought you were in the market for a Charger, so I recommended you a suitable competitor (figuring you were looking for a sporty, powerful car). I'd offer a Chevrolet Malibu or a Buick Lucerne (the Malibu is slightly smaller, but oh so gorgeous) against any Toyota or Honda.

Anyway, Lexus is Toyota's luxury division and Scion is its youth division.

Well Chris, the truth is I just want something that looks nice, has some reasonable power (my Saturns have struggled to go up hills/inclines, and I'm tired of that), and will be reliable. As a guy, sure I'd like something that looks cool and makes a nice roar and goes fast. But I also want to be practical and grown-up....anyway, I guess I'm still in flux.

What engine did they have?

Look, my suggestion to you is to test drive. It doesn't matter how much a car resells for or what it looks like if you don't like how it handles.

Toyota's marketed the Scions to teenagers, but most of the people I see driving them around here are older folk.

They're inexpensive (if you don't get all the aesthetic optional junk), get good gas mileage (I get 35 mpg with my xA just going to work and grocery-getting) and make decent stuff-movers (it's bigger on the inside!). Power windows/locks/mirrors, A/C, and MP3-radio standard. Plus being a Toyota I'm hoping it'll last at least 10-15 years.

I don't know why more people aren't driving these things!

Almost every company has different tier levels.

Back in the old days, Chevrolet was the base model, Pontiacs were slightly sportier, Buicks were slightly more comfortable, Oldsmobile was marketed to the family man that wanted sporty but had to have family room, and Cadillac reigned supreme as GM's "luxury" line.

Ford did the same. Ford was the base model, Mercury was slightly more comfortable, and Lincoln reigned supreme as Ford's "luxury" line.

Toyota has done the same. Toyota is the base model, Lexus is the "luxury" line of vehicles, and Scion is akin to Saturn in the GM world. It's reliable and marketed to a younger crowd.

Even Honda and Nissan have their foot in the door. Acura for Honda and Infiniti for Nissan.

There are some differences beyond the sheet metal, yes. But, by and large, the luxury lines use the same old parts as every other unit in the builder's line.

The 4.6 liter V8 in the Lincoln Town Car is the same 4.6 liter that's in the Ford Mustang, Ford Crown Victoria, and Mercury Grand Marquis.

Hell, just look at this. GM went on a tear for many decades. Look at how many vehicles are different only because of minor sheet metal changes and badging, especially the B and D bodies. The Chevrolet Caprice, The Pontiac Bonneville, The Pontiac Catalina, The Pontiac Parisienne, The Oldsmobile Delta 88, The Buick Electra, The Buick LeSabre, The Buick Roadmaster, and The Cadillac Brougham? All the same frame, basic body, drive train, breaking system, etc.

Not saying they're bad cars, not at all. I've driven many a fine Caprice and my grandfather still loves the LeSabre's he bought new in '77 and '84. But, I don't see the point in paying all the extra money for a Cadillac when what really matters when it comes to the reliability of the vehicle is the same as a Chevrolet.

Oooh. Have you seen the Toyota (Camry) Solara? A fairly decent looking good-sized coupe at a good price. And it comes with the option of a manual transmission.

If I don't wind up getting a Ford Mustang and I'm too cheap to spring for an Audi A5, that may well be my next car. I just wish it had more color options.

Just a quick update - I haven't made any final decisions, and haven't bought anything yet. I've looked at the Toyota Camrys and the Honda Accord much more closely.

I did get the Consumer Reports 2008 annual car issue. Essentially, according to this publication, if it's not Honda or Toyota, then it's crap. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but frankly not much of one. About the only surprise was that the Chevy Silverado was the top recommended full-size truck, beating out the Toyota Tundra.

The Dodge Charger is recommended, but not very highly.

You know, at this point I really don't know how anyone actually buys a car.