Sick to My Stomach - People Actually Care About Statues of Traitors

"But starting a rebellion against the Federal Government to preserve slavery is OUR HERITAGE WAAHHHH!"

Traitors ...and losers too!

While I've no love for those who constantly worship their southern heritage it should be noted that at the time of the American Civil War, lots of Americans (not just southerners) did not see their "country" as the United States of America but as the particular state that they were a resident of.

It is extremely difficult for modern Americans to understand this because IIRC most Americans will live in something like 7 different states during their lifetime. Thus the very concept of sectionalism or regionalism is basically dead. The only time that "state pride" generally comes out is during the college football season.

The easiest way to think though of the sentiment of many Americans in 1860 though is to take a home state college football fanatic and multiply that by 100 and keep it year round.

This is an extremely good point, actually.

It also explains further why you'd want to get rid of the statue now.

BTW, when was it put up?

1905

I'm not sure what state/Federal loyalty actually has to do with this. People were still honoring the actions of a traitor because the US government determined the seceding states as being in rebellion in 1861. That determination held up because the rebellion was crushed, obviously. By the times statues of Confederate generals were being put up, the question of State vs Federal loyalty was essentially decided. The people putting up those statues may still have maintained antebellum attitudes, but they knew what they were doing. It didn't take long after Appomattox for the Lost Cause crap to start.

I think by then the antebellum attitude towards state/federal identity had shifted away from state loyalty to identification as an "American."

It should be noted also that while we look at the idea of the "noble southern lost cause" today with derision, at one time it did play a significant role in national reconciliation. By promoting the fiction that there was something good and honorable about the southern cause it ironically helped restore southern loyalty to the United States as a nation.

At the cost of being a real detriment to the treatment of black Americans of course.

We didn't let the Japanese hang onto a bullshit narrative of history.
We smashed the deity of their emperor in their faces.
Different when it's white people, innit?

Good point. In my observation, that's less overt but not uncommon today. People are "Americans" only when they perceive a threat from outside.

Otherwise, they identify themselves with their state. Q.v. South Carolina last year when the dams burst because they'd been ignoring infrastructure for so long. Having vetoed aid to NY's recovery from Hurricane Sandy, them good ol' boys couldn't wait to scurry up to Washington to beg for help from their beloved Uncle Sam.

I think you're under a misapprehension as to how the Japanese view WWII these days. The current narrative is that it was the evil military government that the isolated emperor was unable to stop.

Well, if Poodle decides he wants to protest this at the new state house, he won't be able to bring a sign, but he can bring his gun.

Un-be-fucking-lievable. Or maybe not. Will Poodle try to avenge his ancestor's "honor"? Watch This Space.

Different when its a civil war and the people you are reconciling with live just across the state line as opposed to living across thousands of miles of ocean.

Anyone who can see anything positive in the Reconstruction period is a far happier person than I am.

Yeah, when your next door neighbors are flat-Earthers that were willing to throw bullets over the idea, best to placate them.
Speaking of, how big is your neighbor's anti-you bunker?

Is this a serious question?

If it is I've lived in more than a dozen different places (including four different houses in the small town we live in now) and I've never seen the slightest indication any of them had some kind of bunker or anything related to that.

Yes, but very, very few Japanese people consider the Emperor a god for whom it is honourable to die. And they certainly did then.

People forget that there were literally millions of Japanese during the World War Two era that were sick of the militaristic society and bullshit Japanese culture in general. Millions of Japanese women for example.

Different times and circumstances, idiot.

@Dayton3 I'm agreeing with your position, why the dumb rep?

Why the rep whine?

You ended your agreement with "idiot".

Please understand, maybe its just me and not a general characteristic of most people but if I think someone calls me an "idiot" I find it annoying.

Edit that out and I'll undo my rep.

FF was calling Diacanu an idiot, not you.

My point still stands, it was a different time with different circumstances. @Diacanu doesn't understand how history works.

Well, you'd think if someone agrees with you, you wouldn't get a dumb rep.

The idiot thought you were calling him an idiot.

What an idiot.

Yes, the different circumstances was it was yellow people with stupid beliefs instead of white people with stupid beliefs.
And the different times was we happened to be racist to the yellow people at that random moment.

Please do not take this as an insult but it seems like you go out of your way to find a racist motive in nearly every situation.

Why?